pegasus day at gulfstream

[Alwaysonpoint36]

Originally Posted by cj

I suspect some of those slots will be offered at a discount. If you don't have a horse worth running, why bother? And if you do, why pay the full million? You could probably get it at a discount when the time comes. Imagine if Chrome does run. Who is going to pay a premium to race against him?

Are there going to be weight assignments? I can't find any information on it, point being if I'm allowed something ridiculous like 15lbs or more and meet that condition ,why not take a shot?

[nearco]

Originally Posted by Alwaysonpoint36

Are there going to be weight assignments? I can't find any information on it, point being if I'm allowed something ridiculous like 15lbs or more and meet that condition ,why not take a shot?

It's Weight For Age. So I believe that would mean the horses just turned 4 would get a slight break from the horses 5yo+ (can't remember the WFA scale in Jan off hand).

There was also talk of when the race idea was first floated of giving a 5lb break for any horse that runs Lasix free, but I don't know if that is still the case.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by thespaah

Ok.....Which brings us to casinos. They don't charge people to get in. One casino in Vegas will handle in a day what So Cal and NYRA handle combined...That includes all sources.
Granted there are tons more wagering opportunities which drives the handle, but the casinos don't need to fleece people before they get into the place either.
Race tracks do not need to collect for parking and admission. They do it just because they can.
Its sort of like air carriers. They do not need to charge for baggage, but they do it because it simply adds to the bottom line.

Casinos in Vegas just started charging $10 to park.

Shows cost hundreds of dTXollars in Vegas, whereas many racetracks charge nothing on top of admission for live entertainment. At a Las Vegas nightclub, a drink can be $14. Rooms at good hotels are hundreds of dollars.

Las Vegas charges plenty.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by thespaah

40 years ago?
To what are you using for comparison?....
I can remember in the 80's a typical Saturday crowd at even Aqueduct, 20,000 people would be in the plant....
Now, I will admit that with the inception of NYC, Nassau Downs and to lesser extent Catskill OTB's, on track admissions did wane. But it wasn't until the mid 90's when the drop off was significant.
Anyway. The point is when Stronach bought Gulfstream from the Donn family, he had seen the handwriting on the wall. So he had the building torn down and built a much smaller and manageable plant.

I attended my first race in New York in 1987, the Marlboro Cup. I don't know the actual crowd, but Belmont was empty.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by thespaah

What you are describing is known as "snob appeal".
Many companies price their goods this way....
For example. All of the major golf equipment manufacturers were taken kicking and screaming into the current big(er) box store model. Where as in the past only golf pro shops could sell certain brands and at virtually fixed prices. The manufacturers finally relented. However the trade off was that no seller could discount the merchandise without express permission from the manufacturer, lest the seller risk losing their licence to sell the products.
Prices are kept high because price points indicate quality.
In this instance though, it is a performance that is untested. The event has no value unless people show up in the first place.
If this were my baby, I would charge a premium, but it would be nominal. If the thing sells out, the price would be gradually increased in successive years until it reaches a tipping point.
Many casinos also offer even moderate but consistent players LOTS of perks.
Look, I think a business should be able to charge for it's products an appropriate price. But is price alone the true indicator of quality? Hell no..
That's like saying Kumho, a Korean tire manufacturer that is in the middle of the road as far as product quality were to for no other reason than to as you say charge a high price just to indicate quality, meanwhile, Kumho tires are not nearly the product of say Michelin or Pirelli.....
So just because Gulfstream is charging a $100 dowry for their special day, does not mean it will be special. The event should have to prove itself first.

Well, cheap people will root for it to fail. People who want the sport to survive will root for it to succeed.

[nearco]

Originally Posted by nearco

It's Weight For Age. So I believe that would mean the horses just turned 4 would get a slight break from the horses 5yo+ (can't remember the WFA scale in Jan off hand).

There was also talk of when the race idea was first floated of giving a 5lb break for any horse that runs Lasix free, but I don't know if that is still the case.

According to this.... http://fsulawrc.com/1963to70FAC/FlaA...AOCR_Part1.pdf
The WFA scale gives a 1lb break at a mile and a 2lb break at mile and quarter to 4yos in Jan. This race is 9f, so not sure if they round up or down.

[cj]

Originally Posted by Alwaysonpoint36

Are there going to be weight assignments? I can't find any information on it, point being if I'm allowed something ridiculous like 15lbs or more and meet that condition ,why not take a shot?

Hard to imagine it wouldn't be level weights since everyone pays the same to get in, but I don't know that for sure.

[Alwaysonpoint36]

Originally Posted by nearco

It's Weight For Age. So I believe that would mean the horses just turned 4 would get a slight break from the horses 5yo+ (can't remember the WFA scale in Jan off hand).

There was also talk of when the race idea was first floated of giving a 5lb break for any horse that runs Lasix free, but I don't know if that is still the case.

Thanks nearco and cj

[Grits]

Originally Posted by Garyinseattle

Ten Palms is far from fine dining down here. They do make a good personal pizza....burger...turkey club........but unless they stuff a 700 dollar voucher into the burger it's a joke to charge what they are asking.

As I said, close proximity. Forks would be my choice.

Dining in Gulfstream, again, means ZIP.

[Garyinseattle]

Originally Posted by Redboard

Hard to disagree with you. But, it's still a ways out. The landscape could change in a few months. Maybe Obrien will throw in a couple of his Euros. Who knows? Let's just say that a longshot wins the BCC. They could make a deal with one of the outfits you listed to share the winning purse(if they are not already owned by one). So, they wouldn't have to put up the $1 mil.

I'm just saying that I applaud the effort to do something instead of just standing there and watching the Titanic sink into the Atlantic. But again, I agree with you, it looks like the race is going to stink.

Agree with what you and some others say that if some of these people who got stuck with an entry decide to offer their entry up in an exchange for a piece of winnings then that could draw in some horses. But no way in hell will the early birds who bought these things right away for a million be able to turn a profit like they initially thought. It ain't happening. What will probably happen over the next few months they will get squeezed enough to have to bail and offer out.

I think the only chance of this thing having any kind of field over 6 horses is if CC doesn't show. If Stonarch was smart he would somehow buy back the entry from CC owners to prevent the horse from coming here. Figure a way out.

Listen, I'm all for tracks doing stuff that is great for the game. Belmont Stakes card....great....Keeneland's super saturday card the other day....great...what Kentucky downs has done....great.....those are some examples that I think are great for racing. But what Stronarch is doing here from every aspect is so absurd....from the race to how he is marketing it and pricing it. He will put on a dog and pony show that will draw people who NEVER go to the track to go for a day. You will get the snob types who will go to be seen, and probably won't bet shit. That big ugly chunk of metal in the GP parking lot has a better chance of flapping it's wings and taking flight over S florida then this thing being a success and continued in 2018. Do any of you remember why he said he built that travesty? It was to have a landmark in S Florida that became iconic like The Eiffel Tower. Again....great call Frank.

The people who bet day in and day out and actually keep GP going will not be near the track that day. Stronarch will draw the one and done people that day to GP.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by Garyinseattle

Agree with what you and some others say that if some of these people who got stuck with an entry decide to offer their entry up in an exchange for a piece of winnings then that could draw in some horses. But no way in hell will the early birds who bought these things right away for a million be able to turn a profit like they initially thought. It ain't happening. What will probably happen over the next few months they will get squeezed enough to have to bail and offer out.

I think the only chance of this thing having any kind of field over 6 horses is if CC doesn't show. If Stonarch was smart he would somehow buy back the entry from CC owners to prevent the horse from coming here. Figure a way out.

Listen, I'm all for tracks doing stuff that is great for the game. Belmont Stakes card....great....Keeneland's super saturday card the other day....great...what Kentucky downs has done....great.....those are some examples that I think are great for racing. But what Stronarch is doing here from every aspect is so absurd....from the race to how he is marketing it and pricing it. He will put on a dog and pony show that will draw people who NEVER go to the track to go for a day. You will get the snob types who will go to be seen, and probably won't bet shit. That big ugly chunk of metal in the GP parking lot has a better chance of flapping it's wings and taking flight over S florida then this thing being a success and continued in 2018. Do any of you remember why he said he built that travesty? It was to have a landmark in S Florida that became iconic like The Eiffel Tower. Again....great call Frank.

The people who bet day in and day out and actually keep GP going will not be near the track that day. Stronarch will draw the one and done people that day to GP.

The people who bet day in and day out also don't get to go to Churchill on Derby Day. That doesn't bother me one bit- Churchill takes that money and uses it to fund horse racing that bettors do like to bet on.

I frankly don't understand how some people here are offended that some horse racing events are for rich people. Horse racing basically invented the luxury box in the form of the private Turf Club.

[Garyinseattle]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

The people who bet day in and day out also don't get to go to Churchill on Derby Day. That doesn't bother me one bit- Churchill takes that money and uses it to fund horse racing that bettors do like to bet on.

I frankly don't understand how some people here are offended that some horse racing events are for rich people. Horse racing basically invented the luxury box in the form of the private Turf Club.

It's just plain idiotic what they are doing. Stronarch tried attracting the crusty elite type by opening up high end shops and restaurants in that shopping area. Ever been there ? I have. It's a ghost town. Goin into II Forks on a Saturday at 7 pm. You'll have no problem getting a table. Go to Frankie's Sports Bar on an NFL Sunday. Beautiful place. Usually about 8 people in the place.

I'm not offended at all by these rich people you speak of . I'm pretty sure Saratoga is packed with the elite rich types. No problem with that. Not sure why you keep going there. Listen. If GP wants to charge 10 bucks on Pegasus day and then have special events where hamburgers cost 765 bucks .....great. Go nuts.

As far as Derby day. Plenty of regulars are there. They charge 50 not 100 for racings biggest day which also happens to be a huge party. Comparing the Derby to the Pegasus is laughable.

[bobphilo]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

Well, cheap people will root for it to fail. People who want the sport to survive will root for it to succeed.

I don't see how people that don't want to be ripped off are cheap. It's also unfair to call people who cannot afford these high prices cheap.
How is overcharging absurd prices helping the game to survive? More likely just the opposite.

[bobphilo]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

The people who bet day in and day out also don't get to go to Churchill on Derby Day. That doesn't bother me one bit- Churchill takes that money and uses it to fund horse racing that bettors do like to bet on.

I frankly don't understand how some people here are offended that some horse racing events are for rich people. Horse racing basically invented the luxury box in the form of the private Turf Club.

Yeah great. Lets make racing a sport only for the rich. Anyone else can just take a hike. For those that can't afford it, lest them eat cake while only seeing major races on TV. Let's go back to pre-revolutionary France.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by bobphilo

I don't see how people that don't want to be ripped off are cheap. It's also unfair to call people who cannot afford these high prices cheap.
How is overcharging absurd prices helping the game to survive? More likely just the opposite.

It isn't "overcharging" or a ripoff to charge more money so that big spenders attend and people who think the market price is a ripoff- i.e., cheap people who refuse to spend money- stay home.

And cheap people are actually awful. They are why we can't have nice things. A market full of people who spend money gets you Del Mar. A market full of cheap people gets you a dumpy racetrack, or worse, an out of business one.

Cheap people are terrible parasites. You want something good? Spend some darned money, or stay home and let those of us who want to spend money and buy nice things do it.