The Saints Slide

[strapper]

It is demoralizing to Saints fan to see them finish off the season in such a way after piling up win after win after win. Can the injuries be the reason or is it more than that? Granted, Drew Brees would've had the game closer in Carolina but they still would've probably lost. Still hoping they can regroup somehow and get it together for the first playoff game and make it to the big one.

[boomman]

Originally Posted by strapper

It is demoralizing to Saints fan to see them finish off the season in such a way after piling up win after win after win. Can the injuries be the reason or is it more than that? Granted, Drew Brees would've had the game closer in Carolina but they still would've probably lost. Still hoping they can regroup somehow and get it together for the first playoff game and make it to the big one.

You should be very proud of your Saints because they OVERACHIEVED to even win as many games in a row as they did. Unfortunately, they're just not that great a team, because even though I'm a long suffering KC Chiefs fan (but ecstatic that we knocked the Broncos out of the playoffs ) I like the Saints and that would have been a nice story. The fact that they're @ home will help, but I doubt it will be enough as I just can't see them beating the Cowboys, and they're probably a coin flip to beat Philly, Az, Green Bay or Minnesota. That secondary of the Saints (even with Sharper) just isn't good enough.......

Boomer

[Hank]

Originally Posted by boomman

You should be very proud of your Saints because they OVERACHIEVED to even win as many games in a row as they did. Unfortunately, they're just not that great a team, because even though I'm a long suffering KC Chiefs fan (but ecstatic that we knocked the Broncos out of the playoffs ) I like the Saints and that would have been a nice story. The fact that they're @ home will help, but I doubt it will be enough as I just can't see them beating the Cowboys, and they're probably a coin flip to beat Philly, Az, Green Bay or Minnesota. That secondary of the Saints (even with Sharper) just isn't good enough.......

Boomer

Actually the back end "when healthy" is the strenght of the defense.Its the front 7 that is deficient.The outside linebackers are backup quality at best as are right tackle and end up front the left tackle is a good player but is playing on one leg with a bad knee,leaving Smith and Vilma as the only 2 quality players among the front 7.

[newtothegame]

Being here, and seeing this team on a regular basis, I have a few things to add.
Has this team over-achieved this year? I could make a pretty compelling arguement that they havent.
Two of the last three years, the saints have been at the top of the league in offense. With that being said, most teams are forced to play catch up. This initself makes alot of teams one dimensional. If you look at the first eight games this year, you will find that the saints jumped out to comfortable leads. This caused opponents to get out of game plans and attempt to do things that they might not necessarily been comfortable with. This usually led to the defense making a big play. I doubt seriously (take the eagles game for example) that kolb and Andy Reid wanted to throw for almost four hundred yards in that game. IE...turnovers.
This tended to happen alot through the early parts of the year. As the year progressed, offensive slip ups, reduced scoring, exposed weaknesses (defense). Primarily in the secondary. When teams could come in and run they way they wanted to, the Saints began to show glaring holes. Add in the injuries on the back end, and well it adds up to the last five games being poor outing (with three of them being losses).
DE play (Grant) has been mediocre at best. With sedrick Ellis out for about half of the year, it exposed weaknesses against the run. The outside LB's (although fighters) are average. This left Vilma to attempt to cover sideline to sideline.
Hopefully, with rest and a few players returning, the defense will play up to par. Not outstanding, but up to par.
The Dome is a very LOUD place for opposing teams to play. Payton will have this team ready. Offensively, they will attempt to jump all over the EAGLES on the 16th. Yes, I think Phila beats Dallas. Phila's secondary isnt what it used to be without Dawkins. Their running game is average at best with the injuries they have sustained. Phila looks and thrives on Big plays. With Sharper roaming center field, I look for the Saints to keep Phila between the 20's and blitz OFTEN.
Saints 42 Phila 17.

[boomman]

Originally Posted by newtothegame

Being here, and seeing this team on a regular basis, I have a few things to add.
Has this team over-achieved this year? I could make a pretty compelling arguement that they havent.
Two of the last three years, the saints have been at the top of the league in offense. With that being said, most teams are forced to play catch up. This initself makes alot of teams one dimensional. If you look at the first eight games this year, you will find that the saints jumped out to comfortable leads. This caused opponents to get out of game plans and attempt to do things that they might not necessarily been comfortable with. This usually led to the defense making a big play. I doubt seriously (take the eagles game for example) that kolb and Andy Reid wanted to throw for almost four hundred yards in that game. IE...turnovers.
This tended to happen alot through the early parts of the year. As the year progressed, offensive slip ups, reduced scoring, exposed weaknesses (defense). Primarily in the secondary. When teams could come in and run they way they wanted to, the Saints began to show glaring holes. Add in the injuries on the back end, and well it adds up to the last five games being poor outing (with three of them being losses).
DE play (Grant) has been mediocre at best. With sedrick Ellis out for about half of the year, it exposed weaknesses against the run. The outside LB's (although fighters) are average. This left Vilma to attempt to cover sideline to sideline.
Hopefully, with rest and a few players returning, the defense will play up to par. Not outstanding, but up to par.
The Dome is a very LOUD place for opposing teams to play. Payton will have this team ready. Offensively, they will attempt to jump all over the EAGLES on the 16th. Yes, I think Phila beats Dallas. Phila's secondary isnt what it used to be without Dawkins. Their running game is average at best with the injuries they have sustained. Phila looks and thrives on Big plays. With Sharper roaming center field, I look for the Saints to keep Phila between the 20's and blitz OFTEN.
Saints 42 Phila 17.

Right now Dallas is the best team in the NFC. I don't buy into that "you can't beat a team 3x in a season" crap, and although I do think Philly will @ least be in the game this x, IMHO it's unlikely they're going to beat Dallas, so good luck with that projection By the way do you think the Saints will beat Dallas? Stranger things have happened, but I doubt it.............

Boomer

[newtothegame]

Originally Posted by boomman

Right now Dallas is the best team in the NFC. I don't buy into that "you can't beat a team 3x in a season" crap, and although I do think Philly will @ least be in the game this x, IMHO it's unlikely they're going to beat Dallas, so good luck with that projection By the way do you think the Saints will beat Dallas? Stranger things have happened, but I doubt it.............

Boomer

When the saints have struggled this year imho ( started with washington), it has been against very physical, big defensive lines. Albert Haynesworth caused fits in the Saints backfield. Big pass rushing teams have been sort of an achiles heal for the Saints. But I also think that you live and die with the blitz. So its teams that can apply pressure without blitzing that will give the Saints the most problems. IF (and thats a big IF), Dallas were to make it to the NFC championship, sure I think the Saints beat them.
For a couple of reasons....
First and foremost, Dallas would have to travel twice and win at home once to make it. Thats alot to ask of any team. Yes, I know all about Pitt going on the road as a wild card and winning it all. But, that doesnt occur everyday.

Secondly, Dallas' secondary will be forced to cover alot of man to man against the saints offfense. Again, thats asking alot of any team. The reason I feel they will have to play man to man is they can not afford to give brees time. Therefore, they will have to bring blitzes. Blitz packages against the saints usually leaves the middle of the field open (lets not forget that Shockey) will be healthy. The saints have adjusted during the games this year probably better then any team I have watched. They will have two weeks to prepare for whoever. I would image the Saints using a RB to help chip block the big pass rushing DE or LB's. Brees has a very quick release and is one of the most accurate passers in the NFL. Look for alot of WR screens, draws, and quick slants. Pass rush nuetralized. Dallas does not have the weaponry to come back from deficits. The play a ball control, control the clock with the run offense. As I stated above, you take that option away and well it become Romo to Austin game only. A one dimensional team is very easy to beat.

Thirdly, I still doubt seriously Dallas can get there. Are they playing well at the moment? Yes, without a doubt. But confidence is a double edge sword. Not too mention the cowboys have shown a knack for crumbling under pressure. Now you could make a similiar arguement about the saints not having been there and the pressure that the big games bring. But if you watch this team consistently, there is NO panic. Its very business like. Remember, this team was given NO shot before the season. If I remember correctly, some people had them dead last in the division. Even now, as a number 1 seed, people are writing them off based on the last three weeks.
Even now, I hear words like "over achieve". Over achieve is a word that should of been used when the saints didnt finish last. 13-0 is not an over achieving team. Thats a team that is a winning ball club.This team recently went to the NFC championship. Last year was a year plagued with injury but still a top 5 offense in which Brees almost broke marino's record for passing yards. Offensively, there isnt another team that can match up in my opinion.
The Saints have only been a few players on defense away from big things. Seems the pieces are falling in place little by little.
This team DOMINATED for the first 8 weeks. You could make an arguement that with the exception of the Washington game, they havent truly been beaten. Yes, they got lucky in washington. But every team that gets to the big dance needs a break or two somewhere during the season. But outside of washington, the saints havent been truly beaten this year. Tampa, saints held a 17-0 lead and kind of went flat. Missed a field goal late that would of won it, allowed a punt return for a TD and still only lost by an OT FG. This was a game that they did EVERYTHING wrong and still was in it till the final kick.
Dallas...another game in which everything that could go wrong did. And still had a chance to drive in the final minute to tie. Dallas brought their best game and still couldnt put N.O away. If I were a Dallas fan, I would NOT want to have to come back and play in new orleans knowing I threw everything I had and still barely hung on for the win against an "over achieving" team.
Carolina...well all I can say is the saints surrendered that game without actually waving a white flag. Starting backup QB, RB and a few WR says alot. Along with the injuries and Defensive back ups, the saints still played better then I expected. Carolina was one of the hottest teams in the NFL (coming off of huge wins against MINN and the Giants in previous weeks). Now granted Steve Smith was out with a broken arm but, I still expected it to be a very lackluster showing by the Saints.
Now I know I got long winded...but YES, if Dallas gets there, I expect the saints to win convincingly. Right now though, Dallas needs to worry about Philly

[DanG]

The Saints are a victim of length of schedule imo. They reached playoff intensity virtually in training camp and are having trouble maintaining that edge / health.

As John Lynch said in pre-season; he has never witnessed more physical training camps then this year and it’s proven to wear some teams down and vice a versa.

If and when the league goes to a cruel 18 game schedule you will need two entire squads to survive without body bags.

Injured reserve for 2009…(this holds true most years btw)

Of the 10 teams who had at least 12 players on injured reserve only the Saints are making the playoffs. (with 14)

[headhawg]

Originally Posted by boomman

Right now Dallas is the best team in the NFC.

They are easily the most overrated team in the NFC and have been all year. Their only winning game of note in the last seven weeks was their win at NO. They lost to SD at home and the Giants the week before that. And they won't beat the Eagles on Saturday.

[lamboguy]

it doesn't matter how good or bad the saints are, i think they are pretty good along with the cardinals, and maybe the eagles and cowboys. but when you match them up to the colts, chargers or patriots, there is nothing there to suggest that any NFC team can win the superbowl at this juncture of time.

[strapper]

I do think the schedule in the NFL is about 2 games too long!

Originally Posted by DanG

The Saints are a victim of length of schedule imo. They reached playoff intensity virtually in training camp and are having trouble maintaining that edge / health.

As John Lynch said in pre-season; he has never witnessed more physical training camps then this year and it’s proven to wear some teams down and vice a versa.

If and when the league goes to a cruel 18 game schedule you will need two entire squads to survive without body bags.

Injured reserve for 2009…(this holds true most years btw)

Of the 10 teams who had at least 12 players on injured reserve only the Saints are making the playoffs. (with 14)

[boomman]

Originally Posted by headhawg

They are easily the most overrated team in the NFC and have been all year. Their only winning game of note in the last seven weeks was their win at NO. They lost to SD at home and the Giants the week before that. And they won't beat the Eagles on Saturday.

Their win over Philly to win the East wasn't a "game of note"? Yea right. Only thing I agree with you on is that they are USUALLY overrated, but I don't think they are this year. That defense is playing for REAL, and if you're so sure they're going to lose to Philly, let's have Mike hold the dough and we'll bet straight up!!!

Boomer

[boomman]

Originally Posted by newtothegame

When the saints have struggled this year imho ( started with washington), it has been against very physical, big defensive lines. Albert Haynesworth caused fits in the Saints backfield. Big pass rushing teams have been sort of an achiles heal for the Saints. But I also think that you live and die with the blitz. So its teams that can apply pressure without blitzing that will give the Saints the most problems. IF (and thats a big IF), Dallas were to make it to the NFC championship, sure I think the Saints beat them.
For a couple of reasons....
First and foremost, Dallas would have to travel twice and win at home once to make it. Thats alot to ask of any team. Yes, I know all about Pitt going on the road as a wild card and winning it all. But, that doesnt occur everyday.

Secondly, Dallas' secondary will be forced to cover alot of man to man against the saints offfense. Again, thats asking alot of any team. The reason I feel they will have to play man to man is they can not afford to give brees time. Therefore, they will have to bring blitzes. Blitz packages against the saints usually leaves the middle of the field open (lets not forget that Shockey) will be healthy. The saints have adjusted during the games this year probably better then any team I have watched. They will have two weeks to prepare for whoever. I would image the Saints using a RB to help chip block the big pass rushing DE or LB's. Brees has a very quick release and is one of the most accurate passers in the NFL. Look for alot of WR screens, draws, and quick slants. Pass rush nuetralized. Dallas does not have the weaponry to come back from deficits. The play a ball control, control the clock with the run offense. As I stated above, you take that option away and well it become Romo to Austin game only. A one dimensional team is very easy to beat.

Thirdly, I still doubt seriously Dallas can get there. Are they playing well at the moment? Yes, without a doubt. But confidence is a double edge sword. Not too mention the cowboys have shown a knack for crumbling under pressure. Now you could make a similiar arguement about the saints not having been there and the pressure that the big games bring. But if you watch this team consistently, there is NO panic. Its very business like. Remember, this team was given NO shot before the season. If I remember correctly, some people had them dead last in the division. Even now, as a number 1 seed, people are writing them off based on the last three weeks.
Even now, I hear words like "over achieve". Over achieve is a word that should of been used when the saints didnt finish last. 13-0 is not an over achieving team. Thats a team that is a winning ball club.This team recently went to the NFC championship. Last year was a year plagued with injury but still a top 5 offense in which Brees almost broke marino's record for passing yards. Offensively, there isnt another team that can match up in my opinion.
The Saints have only been a few players on defense away from big things. Seems the pieces are falling in place little by little.
This team DOMINATED for the first 8 weeks. You could make an arguement that with the exception of the Washington game, they havent truly been beaten. Yes, they got lucky in washington. But every team that gets to the big dance needs a break or two somewhere during the season. But outside of washington, the saints havent been truly beaten this year. Tampa, saints held a 17-0 lead and kind of went flat. Missed a field goal late that would of won it, allowed a punt return for a TD and still only lost by an OT FG. This was a game that they did EVERYTHING wrong and still was in it till the final kick.
Dallas...another game in which everything that could go wrong did. And still had a chance to drive in the final minute to tie. Dallas brought their best game and still couldnt put N.O away. If I were a Dallas fan, I would NOT want to have to come back and play in new orleans knowing I threw everything I had and still barely hung on for the win against an "over achieving" team.
Carolina...well all I can say is the saints surrendered that game without actually waving a white flag. Starting backup QB, RB and a few WR says alot. Along with the injuries and Defensive back ups, the saints still played better then I expected. Carolina was one of the hottest teams in the NFL (coming off of huge wins against MINN and the Giants in previous weeks). Now granted Steve Smith was out with a broken arm but, I still expected it to be a very lackluster showing by the Saints.
Now I know I got long winded...but YES, if Dallas gets there, I expect the saints to win convincingly. Right now though, Dallas needs to worry about Philly

You obviously know your football and I compliment you on a nice analysis/write-up. But I do feel New Orleans has overachieved because in my view they are about a 10 win team that has won a lot of games despite a mediocre defense, because they are well coached and make solid adjustments when things aren't working. I also agree that they have a HUGE home field advantage and winning on the road is tough in the play-offs, but I don't think they're going to be able to turn it back on and play at the level that they did earlier in the season. And of course, I'm not even talking about the Carolina game as that was for all intent and purposes an "exhibition" style game with the Saints resting Brees........(the right move obviously)

Boomer

[Robert Fischer]

the saints have the ability w/ their passing attack to to make the NFL field look much smaller, like an arena league field.
Their offense fits well with the rule adjustments in the NFL that have been altered to favor offense. This can be seen by observation or by looking at the progression of stats in the last 20 years.

look at some of the modern records falling, and you can't really compare guys or teams head-to-head across eras.

As a football team ideally you would peak in January, and you don't always want to show your full arsenal before than, but the Saints remain dangerous nonetheless. THey are always a danger to score early and dictate the style of game, which could be particularly damaging to the few teams left in the NFL who still need balanced offense themselves, should those matchups occur in the playoffs.

Eagles should appreciate a wide open game. Going for philly this time.

[Robert Fischer]

Originally Posted by DanG

The Saints are a victim of length of schedule imo. They reached playoff intensity virtually in training camp and are having trouble maintaining that edge / health.

[newtothegame]

Originally Posted by lamboguy

it doesn't matter how good or bad the saints are, i think they are pretty good along with the cardinals, and maybe the eagles and cowboys. but when you match them up to the colts, chargers or patriots, there is nothing there to suggest that any NFC team can win the superbowl at this juncture of time.

Sorry Lamb....Have to disagree here with ya...
The Pats???? That is a former shell of a once dominant team? The Saints HUMILIATED them on a national stage. Actually made Belechick pull Brady and starters from the game. So when you suggest they dont match up well....sorry but that arguement doesnt fly much.
The Colts are a very talented team as well offensively. But they in alot of ways mirror the saints. Their defense is very suspect at best. Without Sanders back there roaming around, it is a very average defense who can easily be scored against. Their advantage is much like the Saints. They force you out of your game plan by jumping out to early leads forcing teams to play catch up.
Now for the Chargers, I can't argue much. Over the last ten weeks, they have been the hottest team in football. With LT running now like his old self, sprinkling in doses of quick and shifty sproles, and one of the better wide outs in the league in Jackson, a healthy and very dangerous gates....anymore need to be said? Rivers is playing as well as any QB in the league. I pick them to represent the AFC in Miami. But, to think the NFC can't win would be a huge mistake. Will the AFC be a SLIGHT favorite?? Maybe two or three points depending on who respresents the NFC. But it will by no means be one sided.
Personally, I would love to see Brees against his former team San Diego. Wouldnt that make great headlines