Sham Stakes PPs

[GMB@BP]

Originally Posted by jocko699

Robert,

Just got home and watched replay. Really weird race. Coliseum broke slowly, carried wide in 1st turn, Talamo fighting him the whole way and just was so rank it seemed to me.


Looks like this one really needs to grow up mentally. Interested to see if Joe gets to ride him again.

I didnt see anything in that race that I could fault the rider. Horse was being asked to do a lot and the winner had proven class.

[jocko699]

Originally Posted by GMB@BP

I didnt see anything in that race that I could fault the rider. Horse was being asked to do a lot and the winner had proven class.

I never said it was Talamo's ride did I? I said he was fighting the horse. BIG DIFFERENCE.

[GMB@BP]

Originally Posted by jocko699

I never said it was Talamo's ride did I? I said he was fighting the horse. BIG DIFFERENCE.

I dont think he was fighting anything, the horse was rank and in a horrid spot, and while you didnt directly blame him the comment "i wonder if he rides him again" is a pretty decent assignment of blame.

[f2tornado]

Good thing I didn't get carried away betting that chalk. I'm more skeptical when Baffert sends a horse to a cheap prep without an A-list pilot. Coliseum is more bred like a turf horse to begin with... but I felt was plenty good to beat this troupe. What I call the "real" prep season (Holy Bull, Robert B) starts in early February and we get the next future pool February 8-10. I'm inclined to hit Game Winner again at this point.

[jocko699]

Originally Posted by GMB@BP

I dont think he was fighting anything, the horse was rank and in a horrid spot, and while you didnt directly blame him the comment "i wonder if he rides him again" is a pretty decent assignment of blame.

BS, just stop.

[GMB@BP]

Originally Posted by f2tornado

Good thing I didn't get carried away betting that chalk. I'm more skeptical when Baffert sends a horse to a cheap prep without an A-list pilot. Coliseum is more bred like a turf horse to begin with... but I felt was plenty good to beat this troupe. What I call the "real" prep season (Holy Bull, Robert B) starts in early February and we get the next future pool February 8-10. I'm inclined to hit Game Winner again at this point.

Talamo has been riding most of his good horses lately, a little bit still with Van Dyke.

[taxicab]

Game Winner flattered.
Coliseum just didn't have it today.
That being said....
I wonder how much longer Talamo continues to get top stock from Baffert.
Talamo has never liked to send his horses(usually the Baffert lot likes to be near the front),and he's not at his best with grade one animals.......aka.....tight collar when the horse/race means something.
He's had plenty of chances in the past to perform on the biggest stages....it just doesn't work for him........little bits of trouble...... track bias errors......dicey pace moves at the wrong time.
Baffert has always soured on his jockeys for whatever reason......even when they've had large amounts of success for him........see Mike Smith/Martin Garcia.
The Mike Smith one is really baffling.......I know he still gets a few top notch.....but not like before.

[Someday Silent]

It's not surprising that Coliseum lost... I picked Sueno to win but Gunmetal Gray definitely had more experience and class today. We've all gotten used to seeing horses go from maiden wins straight to graded stakes company, but that doesn't mean it's always a good idea, especially when dealing with these temperamental types.

[ultracapper]

Originally Posted by Someday Silent

It's not surprising that Coliseum lost... I picked Sueno to win but Gunmetal Gray definitely had more experience and class today. We've all gotten used to seeing horses go from maiden wins straight to graded stakes company, but that doesn't mean it's always a good idea, especially when dealing with these temperamental types.

This. That's ridiculous taking 3/5 on a one out maiden winner in a G3, no matter how impressive the maiden win may have looked. And frankly, the maiden win proved nothing. He cleared a 6 horse field with his stable mate the only other horse shorter than 8/1, and basically put on a public workout from the 5/8ths pole to the wire.

I had no dog in the fight, but when I realized he had just the maiden win to his credit with about 10 minutes to post, I looked at the replay of his win real quick and thought, welllllllll, OK, we'll see.

[ultracapper]

Originally Posted by taxicab

Game Winner flattered.
Coliseum just didn't have it today.
That being said....
I wonder how much longer Talamo continues to get top stock from Baffert.
Talamo has never liked to send his horses(usually the Baffert lot likes to be near the front),and he's not at his best with grade one animals.......aka.....tight collar when the horse/race means something.
He's had plenty of chances in the past to perform on the biggest stages....it just doesn't work for him........little bits of trouble...... track bias errors......dicey pace moves at the wrong time.
Baffert has always soured on his jockeys for whatever reason......even when they've had large amounts of success for him........see Mike Smith/Martin Garcia.
The Mike Smith one is really baffling.......I know he still gets a few top notch.....but not like before.

Can't forget the late great Garret Gomez.

[GMB@BP]

Originally Posted by ultracapper

This. That's ridiculous taking 3/5 on a one out maiden winner in a G3, no matter how impressive the maiden win may have looked. And frankly, the maiden win proved nothing. He cleared a 6 horse field with his stable mate the only other horse shorter than 8/1, and basically put on a public workout from the 5/8ths pole to the wire.

I had no dog in the fight, but when I realized he had just the maiden win to his credit with about 10 minutes to post, I looked at the replay of his win real quick and thought, welllllllll, OK, we'll see.

Its been good advice but once someone told me always bet against a mdn winner being asked to do multiple things for the first time, two turns, graded stakes winners, and at 3/5....thats enough to take a shot in that field.

Its interesting that baffert went right to a graded stakes race but with Justify he sought out an alw race around two turns for the first time. I guess to avoid what happened, a case where things went wrong and they would need to regroup which they didnt have time for last year. Thats what makes the Justify run so impressive, the margin for error was zero. Lots of pressure with a horse like that.

[Blenheim]

Splits

23.46; (23.49); 46.95; (24.96); 1:11.64; (13.22); 1:24.86; (14:10) 1:38.96

6 to 7 – 13.22
7 to 8 – 14.1
6 to 8 – 27.32

~

Speed bias for the meet @ 8fl: 81%, for the week: 100%, interesting the winner came last to first. I reviewed the charts for the day, zero dirt races wire to wire.

Gotta give credit to the trainer of the winner here, had the horse well placed and brought him in fresh . . . Money Mike read the track and they win it; nicely done by both. Lookin' forward to seein' what Gunmetal Gray has for em' @ 9fl. No doubt he'll be lockin' horns w/Game Winner or Improbable sometime soon.

Coliseum broke a bit tardy, had he broke correctly and gone w/the leaders, I doubt the outcome would have been much different. Much Better ran a nice race in what may have been against the bias, had he not switched to his left lead at 7f, I think he wins it.

Coliseum will no doubt come back a better horse, but the competition won't be gettin' any easier. Much Better was all in and it doesn't appear he can stay despite being on the wrong lead, but @ 600k no doubt they'll be looking for another spot.

A fun race to watch. Gunmetal Gray gets the priceless Derby points . . . and is Number 4 on the Derby Leaderboard.

[f2tornado]

Originally Posted by Blenheim

6 to 8 – 27.32

That final quarter is pedestrian. For what it's worth, i knocked Justify running a 26.09 FQ in the same distance allowance last year... but Justify's final clock was 3.23 seconds faster than Gunmetal, albeit with sealed mud. I'll try to beat him going longer.

[cj]

Originally Posted by f2tornado

That final quarter is pedestrian. For what it's worth, i knocked Justify running a 26.09 FQ in the same distance allowance last year... but Justify's final clock was 3.23 seconds faster than Gunmetal, albeit with sealed mud. I'll try to beat him going longer.

The final quarter for Gunmetal Gray, since he was still in last with 1/4 to go, listed as 4 3/4 lengths behind, is a bit faster. I have him at ~26.64.

[bobphilo]

Originally Posted by cj

The final quarter for Gunmetal Gray, since he was still in last with 1/4 to go, listed as 4 3/4 lengths behind, is a bit faster. I have him at ~26.64.

Is that time unadjusted? Not nearly as important as adjusted time. But you already know that since adjusting times is what you do and do it well.