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Old 05-05-2009, 09:23 PM   #31
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No problem for starting the thread. Some good ideas here. Here are a few more I have. I think the New England tracks could learn a few things from some of the minor league baseball teams. In between innings there is more going on than during the game. I would think some of those things would be fun in between races. I also think another way to get some 20-30 year people there would be to have sports bars that have been updated in the last few years. Most of these facilities are huge with plenty of parking. If they could be a place to watch an NFL game or other games in a nice bar while betting a simulcast on the side that would be great. I also am trying to see if i can host my fantasy football draft at one of the tracks. That would get 10+ guys there for 2-3 hours. We just need a couple tables and some space and can play the races in between selections. I would assume there are 100's of leagues that struggle to find places to host these things, it may be a good way to get some new blood to the track. New blood is the key to growth...
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Old 05-05-2009, 11:00 PM   #32
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You are right. It has been free admission in Ontario for quite a while and the crowds get smaller and older every year.
LOLOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

CG, and I bet they're showing up with their AARP cards, which, no doubt, insures their senior discount--for whatever may NOT yet be FREE.

SuffolkDownsFan, horseracing, still today, is inexpensive, when compared to all major sports. And this is whether one is a spectator of football, baseball, basketball, hockey, NASCAR etc, etc, or a participant in tennis, golf, boating, etc. Club memberships included. Again, free is of no value. These sports are not, why should horseracing be?

The cultivating of new fans lies, not so much with those of us who already love the game, but instead, the greater concern is instant gratification, or what may be seen as a lack of such. One's attention span, and one's desire to learn this game has to be paramount. If you possess neither, you will not ever have any interest in the sport of horseracing.

Text messaging and tweeting will probably not garner a twentysomething too many winners.

At some point, hopefully, one puts their cellphones away. And it is then, that one begins to learn from those of us willing to teach and welcome new fans to the sport we care so much for.
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Old 05-06-2009, 06:31 AM   #33
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Unfortunately cell phones, texting, tweating, facebook, etc are here to stay and they are not going away so industries (not just horse racing) will need to find ways to adapt to that and work it into the experience somehow.
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Old 05-06-2009, 10:15 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by SuffolkDowns Fan
Unfortunately cell phones, texting, tweating, facebook, etc are here to stay and they are not going away so industries (not just horse racing) will need to find ways to adapt to that and work it into the experience somehow.
That's a good point, imo. At the wagering conference last week, we went over things for the future of playing racing, and those things are hear to stay, and I think will be a part of every web-interface with video and more in the future.

We have always been big on twitter and what it can do at HANA. I do not know if Treasurer Theresia could live without twitter when handicapping.
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Old 05-06-2009, 10:37 AM   #35
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Sorry SDF, we do not agree.

If you want a casino experience, one with plenty of females, comp drinks, etc, etc, there's always Vegas and the racebooks.

One doesn't take their cellphone on the tennis court, nor does one tweat and chat on the phone while teeing off on #9.

This is the one sport that you don't rush. It doesn't need Ostrich racing or sandy beach networking between races. It takes more dedication than any other. You're dealing with animals throughout the day, so, consequently, its not all about "us." You watch, you listen, you watch some more. But most of all, you learn to read past performance lines; or else, you fail at it, miserably.

Still, with all of this said, I cannot see how anyone, any age, could be on the grounds of Saratoga Racecourse on an August afternoon and not have a wonderful experience. Regardless, whether you're in the clubhouse or in the backyard under the trees.

The sport of horseracing is what it is--it doesn't need a great deal of change. Maybe, instead, the change is our responsibility.

I assure you, I'm not your demographic. Still, I don't complain about the surroundings, the trivial, that which may not be as user friendly as I would like. No one has to roll out the red carpet, etc, etc.

In other words, its more constructive, and in my best interest to adapt, whether its for one day at Big A, two weeks at Keeneland, or a month at Saratoga.

If I were to complain, in any way, it would include, only, takeout, and tax reporting. Not anything else. You're in my pocket then, and that irritates me. A LOT!

I love horseracing, horses and people, and all are more important to me than the welcome mat, the trappings, and the appreciation of my level of disposable income, which, truth be told is totally irrelevant to begin with because when I walk through the gate no one there will know what's in my handbag. My annual income, my net worth is not a point of concern. When it becomes one, I need to remain at home. I just don't care, and I assume others do not as well. But, of course, this is just my take on the sport I love.

I do hope, though, that young people will come to know there's a lot of fun to be had watching horses run.

Its a great game. The greatest, actually.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuffolkDowns Fan
Unfortunately cell phones, texting, tweating, facebook, etc are here to stay and they are not going away so industries (not just horse racing) will need to find ways to adapt to that and work it into the experience somehow.
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Old 05-06-2009, 10:50 AM   #36
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Excellent Post!

Grits,
Pete Axelhelm could not have stated it better! I hope some racing officials take some of your excellent ideas seriously!
Maxspa
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Old 05-06-2009, 10:52 AM   #37
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It is the greatest game Grits, but we have to remember new markets and what they want, not what we want - we are satisfied.

If Ebay asked existing flea market or garage sale people if they want to do it on the web the answer is "no, I like to touch what I am buying"

If Amazon asked what existing book buyers want, they would hear "I love to browse and have fun at the bookstore"

These businesses would have never been started if they listened only to existing customers.

The new market does not want to travel to a track, study a racing form for six hours, sit for 5 hours and then go home. You and I do that and we should always be looked after and respected (something that the business has done a poor job at), but to get new markets we must think new, and fresh. We can not make people be horse fans and bettors, they need to be targeted and the game needs to change to fit their needs, not the other way around (imo).

I used two slides at a presentation recently on changing demo's

This was the first one:

http://www.murraytuckerwriter.com/da...andicapper.jpg

The second one was this:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/127/3...e47aff.jpg?v=0

He is a 20 year old kid that grew up playing Dungeons and Dragons, is extremely smart and now plays poker. He is tailor-made for games, and gambling. He has $1.3M in earnings. He would be perfect for the mind game of horse racing, with stats, probabilities and so on (he says that is what interested him to poker). However, we have not brought that to him. He bought a poker book and started playing. In racing he would have to buy data, study with a pencil and paper, test, and if he lived in a state without ADW coverage like so many, he could not even play online - and even if he survived all that, then we would proceed to kick his ass with 22% takeouts. This is a huge problem, and a completely underserved market that we are losing. We have to start building plans to get at them and serve them if we want a shot to grow the game (imo).

Last edited by DeanT; 05-06-2009 at 10:55 AM.
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Old 05-06-2009, 11:24 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by DeanT
It is the greatest game Grits, but we have to remember new markets and what they want, not what we want - we are satisfied.

If Ebay asked existing flea market or garage sale people if they want to do it on the web the answer is "no, I like to touch what I am buying"

If Amazon asked what existing book buyers want, they would hear "I love to browse and have fun at the bookstore"

These businesses would have never been started if they listened only to existing customers.

The new market does not want to travel to a track, study a racing form for six hours, sit for 5 hours and then go home. You and I do that and we should always be looked after and respected (something that the business has done a poor job at), but to get new markets we must think new, and fresh. We can not make people be horse fans and bettors, they need to be targeted and the game needs to change to fit their needs, not the other way around (imo).

I used two slides at a presentation recently on changing demo's

This was the first one:

http://www.murraytuckerwriter.com/da...andicapper.jpg

The second one was this:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/127/3...e47aff.jpg?v=0

He is a 20 year old kid that grew up playing Dungeons and Dragons, is extremely smart and now plays poker. He is tailor-made for games, and gambling. He has $1.3M in earnings. He would be perfect for the mind game of horse racing, with stats, probabilities and so on (he says that is what interested him to poker). However, we have not brought that to him. He bought a poker book and started playing. In racing he would have to buy data, study with a pencil and paper, test, and if he lived in a state without ADW coverage like so many, he could not even play online - and even if he survived all that, then we would proceed to kick his ass with 22% takeouts. This is a huge problem, and a completely underserved market that we are losing. We have to start building plans to get at them and serve them if we want a shot to grow the game (imo).
That is a very good post, Dean. The biggest point is that in order for racing to grow it needs to change and reach out from its existing boundaries, as well as improving its product and customer satisfaction in that product. If there are no changes to the status quo, then the industry will continue to decline because any industry who looses customers faster then new customers are added is destined to shrink. The current cold, hard demographics of the modern horseplayer shows a significant skew towards the older end of the population with little growth in other segments of the population. Racing is soon going to reach the point where its customer is dying off faster then it can convert new customers. I realize this is a pretty blunt way to look at it, but its pretty important from a long term perspective to keep in mind.
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Old 05-06-2009, 11:37 AM   #39
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As you know T, we have the article up on the website about what racing can/might be in 2050. For a link to the interesting article its here at a standardbred trade magazine. http://previewsc.ca/trot/may-2009/your-choice.html

Some of that seems way out there, but watching racing on my phone twenty years ago seemed the same. In fact, if you said that in 1980, you probably would have been committed.

A few facts about changing technology and in return changing markets? I'll take a stab:

In 2009 you can hold in your hand about 10-20,000 songs on an IPOD. In 2015 with data storage growing at an exponential current rate you will be able to hold, in the palm of your hand every song ever recorded in the history of music. In 2019 it is estimated that in the palm of your hand you will be able to hold every piece of video ever recorded in history - every movie, every youtube clip, everything.

Currently $500-$700B of bets are placed on skill games online a year, only to grow. Racings current handle is $13 billion dollars in NA, at all tracks and online. And on track betting is shrinking each day.

In south Korea they are instituting super-broadband via a gvt initiative. 55% of South Koreans surf the web in the palm of their hand over 10 hours a week. In a startling stat, 33% of South Korean 3 year old children are considered "web surfers". In 15 years those children will be legal aged bettors. Are we ready for them and that market? Will they come to the track for 6 hours and bet?

I think we have a lot of work to do in looking outside our market by preparing for tomorrow, today.

Last edited by DeanT; 05-06-2009 at 11:43 AM.
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Old 05-06-2009, 12:04 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by DeanT
As you know T, we have the article up on the website about what racing can/might be in 2050. For a link to the interesting article its here at a standardbred trade magazine. http://previewsc.ca/trot/may-2009/your-choice.html

Some of that seems way out there, but watching racing on my phone twenty years ago seemed the same. In fact, if you said that in 1980, you probably would have been committed.

A few facts about changing technology and in return changing markets? I'll take a stab:

In 2009 you can hold in your hand about 10-20,000 songs on an IPOD. In 2015 with data storage growing at an exponential current rate you will be able to hold, in the palm of your hand every song ever recorded in the history of music. In 2019 it is estimated that in the palm of your hand you will be able to hold every piece of video ever recorded in history - every movie, every youtube clip, everything.

Currently $500-$700B of bets are placed on skill games online a year, only to grow. Racings current handle is $13 billion dollars in NA, at all tracks and online. And on track betting is shrinking each day.

In south Korea they are instituting super-broadband via a gvt initiative. 55% of South Koreans surf the web in the palm of their hand over 10 hours a week. In a startling stat, 33% of South Korean 3 year old children are considered "web surfers". In 15 years those children will be legal aged bettors. Are we ready for them and that market? Will they come to the track for 6 hours and bet?

I think we have a lot of work to do in looking outside our market by preparing for tomorrow, today.
Your examples of technology improvements illustrates that in some ways racing is facing a tremendous opportunity with the potential for substantial handle growth, which is absolutely crucial to the future of the sport. The key is properly incorporating new technology while at the same time allowing racing to retain some of the core attributes of racing which make it special and differentiate it from other forms of gambling.

Now I have made no secret of the fact that I am not into Twitter, MySpace, Facebook, etc. But if it helps bring some new blood into the sport and new money into the pools, then I am all in favor of it. In fact, its nice to see a more pro-active approach by different race tracks using those new mediums. just don't expect me to me to be doing it, I will be with all the "not cool" old fogies.
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Old 05-06-2009, 12:13 PM   #41
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Let's hope we never lose traditional racing. One way to ensure it stays is to grow it, so I am all for this stuff.

I am planning to go to a harness race in PEI this August for the very first time. It is called the Gold Cup and Saucer. It is a throwback race to old times, in a rural setting and a harness racing hotbed. There are no superstars, it is not a big stakes race, but it is history. 40,000 people come out for the fair and race and it is a marvelous experience that I hope we never lose.

We can chat more about this on Twitter later.
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Old 05-06-2009, 01:39 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by DeanT

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/127/3...e47aff.jpg?v=0

He is a 20 year old kid that grew up playing Dungeons and Dragons, is extremely smart and now plays poker. He is tailor-made for games, and gambling. He has $1.3M in earnings. He would be perfect for the mind game of horse racing, with stats, probabilities and so on (he says that is what interested him to poker). However, we have not brought that to him. He bought a poker book and started playing. In racing he would have to buy data, study with a pencil and paper, test, and if he lived in a state without ADW coverage like so many, he could not even play online - and even if he survived all that, then we would proceed to kick his ass with 22% takeouts. This is a huge problem, and a completely underserved market that we are losing. We have to start building plans to get at them and serve them if we want a shot to grow the game (imo).
Dean, in all fairness, racing is not dead, not at this point. And not all of us are old degenerates, and old fogies because we don't tweat, or keep earphones in our ears jamming to an Ipod 18 hours a day. We both know this. I think one of our biggest problems is one of far too many racetracks--but that's for another day and will likely be worked out in the future by way of attrition. The article at the trotting site is a good one, but, like you said, a bit out there from a few standpoints. I hope others will read it, but due to attention span that may be a little dicey. Worth it, still, for sure.

I think, though, you should make some big adjustments in your photo presentation. Seriously. Maybe gather what we have today in 2009--Beyer, Serling, Litfin, Dan Illman, Mike Watchmaker, Steve Crist, Jon White, Rich Perloff, and that guy from www.pacefigures.com. Put them all on a bench, side by side, instead of a group of guys from 5 or 6 decades ago. Include yourself and Jeff in the photo as well. With these gentleman, alone, you have a wide age range, not to mention, collectively, a more physically fit, far healthier group than your target demographic whose photo you've also posted.

I'm going to be honest with you now. I don't think this young man is a good candidate for your target demographic. He is obese, he is beyond pale. Dean, he is the hallmark that exists today for the darkside of computers and gaming. Why am I not surprised he spent his childhood, his adolescence in front of a computer or XBox playing Dungeons and Dragons and eating one meal a day--all day, around the clock? I'm not maligning him, I'm stating the obvious. This young man has probably never spent an afternoon on a soccer field or a baseball diamond in his life. What would lead me to believe he would want to do anything beyond continuing his habit of sitting--indoors, in a different room? But this time, at a card table?

What I'm stating here--its EASY, Dean. And because of this--what could be better for him? There's no transition here. He was able to read A/one book. Good.

It would have taken more effort on his part to walk across a parking lot to enter a grandstand five days a week, and to walk back and forth to betting windows, unless he's Maloney with his office on the 3rd floor at Keeneland. Granted, of course, he could've sat to learn pps, but still this young man moved forward with what came naturally to him and by way of the path of least resistance.

Sweetheart, this young man will die long, long before the sport of horseracing. I promise you. His heart will give out.

There's much to be done to direct growth. But the fact remains, McDonald's has been about hamburgers, fries and a coke for a long, long, time. And they are the pinnacle of the fast food industry still. They HAVE NOT changed their product. They have added breakfast, chicken nuggets, and salads. But you can bank on the fact their product remains the same.

This is the only sport in the country, with the exception of dog racing, that showcases animals and involves interactive participation to fuel it. It cannot be compared or held up against poker, slots, or other forms of mindless gambling, lotto, etc, etc. To do so, of course, is apples and oranges.

Enhance the racing experience, yes, but you can't remove it very far from what it is today, and always has been. And to wager, at home, in front of a computer is a complete drag when compared to being at Belmont Park, Churchill Downs, and many other racetracks. But this is my opinion, its what works for me, and its certainly not the answer for many, I know.

The industry will continue to work to realize beneficial directions for growth.

Forgive my honesty, but I don't know any other way to be regarding your choice of horseplayers and would be horseplayers. Though your would be players may thrive on the freebies and the two for ones.
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Old 05-06-2009, 02:01 PM   #43
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I don't think this young man is a good candidate for your target demographic. He is obese, he is beyond pale. Dean, he is the hallmark that exists today for the darkside of computers and gaming. Why am I not surprised he spent his childhood, his adolescence in front of a computer or XBox playing Dungeons and Dragons and eating one meal a day--all day, around the clock? I'm not maligning him, I'm stating the obvious.

Forgive my honesty, but I don't know any other way to be regarding your choice of horseplayers and would be horseplayers.
You didn't like Jimmy Fricke? Sheesh, don't tell him

How about this young man?



He is 23 years old, fit (he speaks of daily workouts on his blog to keep him sharp), he's a well adjusted fella, a computer science graduate, and he had never been to a horse race ever. But last year he saw an ad for a seminar called "Learn to play racing at Betfair". He took it, and three months later learned enough with his software to stop looking for a job. He now plays for a living, after not knowing a fetlock from a hammerlock and contributes thousands a year to purses.

He documents his play on his blog with screen shot and video updates. He has made $225,000 so far this year. In terms of new fans not only is this excellent marketing, he also has become an on track fan on his days off. He brought ten of his young friends to the Cheltanham festival this year, on track, and none of them had ever been to a race.

We brought the track to him, not the other way around with low pricing and an interesting interface, not unlike etrade brought the stock market into a soccer mom's kitchen. Is this a better example than Jimmy Fricke perhaps?

Last edited by DeanT; 05-06-2009 at 02:08 PM.
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Old 05-06-2009, 02:38 PM   #44
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Excellent example, Dean, excellent!!! Continued success for this young man, and any and all friends who he takes to the track and introduces to the game. Now, get to work on upgrading your other long time players--the one's who are going to the track today, still. The ones, alive, in the 21st century like your guy here. LOLOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

By the way, last week I went to New York for the week. I have friends there that I spend time with throughout the year. Several of us gathered at Belmont on Wednesday for Opening Day, and again, on Thursday. I could have gone upstairs in the clubhouse--went in through the clubhouse, and could've remained there both days, but instead, even though the late afternoons got quite chilly I wanted to spend time with all my buds, outside on the rail. That's where they love to be. All of us range in age from 61 to 24. A couple having been at that rail for more than 40 years. Track days are always fun!!!

Oaks and Derby day dawned chilly and rainy, we stayed in, home all day, both days, wagering online, watching on my friend's 46 inch tv. The Oaks and the Derby in high definition on a big, wide screen is one of the absolute finest bits of technology on this planet. No doubt. There wasn't a better seat to be had; I could see the tears of joy rolling down Calvin's face and Donna Brothers' gorgeous smile along beside him. And I didn't have to endure a rainy day at Churchill or at Belmont to see either.

So, yep--technology is fine, fine, thing.
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Old 05-06-2009, 04:58 PM   #45
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* Do stuff between races. Interview people, have contests and that sort of thing. If a new fan is taking a six horse box, 10 times, he/she has to be entertained as they are not handicapping much between races.
This is something I think about whenever I take friends to the track. Unless you're in a large group and they can entertain themselves, it's hard to handicap AND play entertainment host.
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