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Old 05-26-2022, 12:58 PM   #46
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OK, so the public was never lied to then...actual 4f work actual 4f time

Got it.

Now I can disengage panic mode

dilane got me all worked up for nothing
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Old 05-26-2022, 01:02 PM   #47
Bustin Stones
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How hard is it to take a race horse out for a 4f workout? Do we need to change or circumvent a rule to avoid that? Trainers always have another chance to do work out their horse. How much does a 4f workout take out of a horse?
I'm not in the industry. Maybe a 4f workout is a really big deal.
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Old 05-26-2022, 01:17 PM   #48
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I don't know about NYRA, but at Finger Lakes, we call 4 furlongs in :53 a BULLET
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Old 05-26-2022, 01:19 PM   #49
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At Finger Lakes, if the horse makes it 4f without slowing to a walk it's a bullet.
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Old 05-26-2022, 01:39 PM   #50
v j stauffer
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How hard is it to take a race horse out for a 4f workout? Do we need to change or circumvent a rule to avoid that? Trainers always have another chance to do work out their horse. How much does a 4f workout take out of a horse?
I'm not in the industry. Maybe a 4f workout is a really big deal.
What I find stupid about this rule isn't what the work could potentially take out of a horse. It's the fact that 4 furlongs might not be enough to get him fit enough to avoid another poor performance.

Forcing a trainer to work EXACTLY a 1/2 mile makes no sense to me.
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Old 05-26-2022, 02:27 PM   #51
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Wouldn't you hope that what is in the best interest of the sport that horses perform in practice at a minimum to prove both fitness and athletic ability to compete?
Yes, I know that isn't currently the standard. But, should it be?
What is the minimum standard for 6f? Should a horse be able to cover it in 1:14 to be considered a race horse? Or are we settling for it's a horse with a rider ergo it's a race horse?
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Old 05-26-2022, 07:27 PM   #52
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I made a point last night of consulting two state vets and two stewards, and each concurred that a workout longer than a mandated 4 furlongs would (and indeed HAS} sufficed under their respective dominions. Each responded that of COURSE common sense supersedes the exact wording of that particular rule. One of them apparently applies an EXTREMELY lenient policy of requiring roughly 13 seconds per 220, another makes allowances for "cuppy" footing, while a third acted like I was an idiot for even questioning whether a longer drill than rules mandate would be acceptable.

Want ten MORE examples of racing rules that get (wisely) bent or outright circumvented on a daily basis in the production of horse races?

I could expound much, much further on these matters, but promised my son a fine dinner out..LOL.
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Old 05-26-2022, 11:35 PM   #53
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Wouldn't you hope that what is in the best interest of the sport that horses perform in practice at a minimum to prove both fitness and athletic ability to compete?
Yes, I know that isn't currently the standard. But, should it be?
What is the minimum standard for 6f? Should a horse be able to cover it in 1:14 to be considered a race horse? Or are we settling for it's a horse with a rider ergo it's a race horse?
In theory, you are not incorrect. The notion that turning a half in 52..53..or whatEVER somehow certifies readiness and ability to compete has always been a complete farce. The real reason horses on lists are required to work is to establish that a runner can safely navigate the course. Few stewards or state vets would outright SAY that's the ONLY purpose of mandated works, but it is nonetheless true.

And that's the reason that making the steward's "poor performance" list nowadays at most tracks means likewise being put on the vet's list. Ideally, that brings an unimpeachable expert on thoroughbred soundness, soreness, and infirmities into the equation to observe the drill, sometimes watch the horse cool out, and even pull blood. And believe me, this was not always so.

Whatever players might desire, looking out for the public can NEVER be top priority in these cases. Safety of horse and jockey is by far the more compelling imperative.

Unless, that is, ANYBODY is foolish enough to believe that mandated workout-speed can EVER provide assurance of impending race speed.

Last edited by mountainman; 05-26-2022 at 11:41 PM.
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Old 05-27-2022, 07:48 AM   #54
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I'm all for safety too. Why aren't jockeys wearing football helmets and torso armor? Why do we still use hard rails instead of the markers that trotters use?
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Old 05-27-2022, 08:07 AM   #55
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I'm all for safety too. Why aren't jockeys wearing football helmets and torso armor? Why do we still use hard rails instead of the markers that trotters use?
The rails aren't hard any more, they are very flexible and much safer than ones of yesteryear.
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Old 05-28-2022, 05:01 PM   #56
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If they want to fine the guy $250, fine. But a 30 day suspension is insane. How about fix the ridiculously stupid rule?
I have no objection to fixing the rule. It's clear that it is a bad rule. But in a regulated sport with betting money on the line, I want racetrack employees following the rules even if they are bad ones, and contacting regulators if they need to be changed.
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Old 05-28-2022, 05:18 PM   #57
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I have no objection to fixing the rule. It's clear that it is a bad rule. But in a regulated sport with betting money on the line, I want racetrack employees following the rules even if they are bad ones, and contacting regulators if they need to be changed.
Like I said, it isn't even clear he broke a rule. The horse did work four furlongs in the required time. It was clocked. Distance of workouts has always been somewhat arbitrary.
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Old 05-28-2022, 07:49 PM   #58
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Like I said, it isn't even clear he broke a rule. The horse did work four furlongs in the required time. It was clocked. Distance of workouts has always been somewhat arbitrary.
I think if any of his former clients read this board they would have a legit beef with the CA bar association. It's honestly scary to think of a lawyer that jumps to conclusions with little to no facts like he does.
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Old 05-28-2022, 08:53 PM   #59
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I think if any of his former clients read this board they would have a legit beef with the CA bar association. It's honestly scary to think of a lawyer that jumps to conclusions with little to no facts like he does.
That's preposterous and uncalled for.
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Old 05-30-2022, 03:13 AM   #60
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That's preposterous and uncalled for.
SHARP POST
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