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Old 01-13-2022, 07:21 AM   #1
westernmassbob
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Head 2 head sports betting on horse racing ?

With sports betting being approved across the country how will horse racing take advantage of this ? Why wouldn’t tracks seize the opportunity and include match races in their cards and allow money line bets etc .?
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Old 01-14-2022, 09:51 AM   #2
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Prior offerings on this have had way, way too high of a takeout to be taken seriously. If sports betting type takeout was used, it would be great.
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Old 01-14-2022, 10:56 AM   #3
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Prior offerings on this have had way, way too high of a takeout to be taken seriously. If sports betting type takeout was used, it would be great.
Yes I meant as sports betting money line type wagers not parimutel. I can see the sports bettors who normally don’t bet horses gravitating over if the money line bets were offered. This in turn could also invigorate parimutel pools and create new fans.
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Old 01-14-2022, 01:19 PM   #4
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Setting the lines is tough for the books. They would get slaughtered and would have to go high vig, low limits, and boot anyone with a clue to stand a chance.
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Old 01-14-2022, 01:21 PM   #5
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Remember..."the racetracks aren't in the gambling business".

In theory this is an excellent idea...but it fails in the practicality department. The casinos don't want to offer heads-up fixed odds horse betting, because they are afraid of the 'inside information' in the game. And the racetracks in this country only allow parimutuel wagering on their product because this type of betting removes all the financial risk that the sports betting bookies must endure. The racetracks here are against fixed odds horse betting of any kind, because they don't want to book the action on their own game. The only gambling action that the racetracks are interested in is the type where the "house" can safely take its guaranteed cut right off the top.
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Old 01-14-2022, 07:06 PM   #6
westernmassbob
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[QUOTE=thaskalos;2779839]

Thaskalos , You made some very valid points and prior to my post I did put some thought into the concerns this type of wager would bring. The way I look at it the “ inside information “ could pertain to any sports that are currently being bet on today. Do I think race manipulation would or could happen ? Of course. I do think it should be tried by at least one track and secure a partnership with an outside vendor to assure prevention of a financial risk. BTW this type of wagering already exists with success in Europe.
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Old 01-14-2022, 07:28 PM   #7
thaskalos
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Sports betting is the Big Gorilla in the gambling world, and now that sports betting is becoming widely legal, every betting outlet is salivating over the potential sports-betting profits that they could garner for themselves. The racetrack profits pale in comparison, so horse betting isn't exactly viewed with optimism right now. Even the racetracks are more interested in securing a slice of the sports betting pie for themselves...instead of endeavoring to make their own gambling product more appealing as a competing entity.

It takes true innovation to come up with creative solutions when the marketplace becomes ultra-competitive...and "innovation" is something that the horse racing industry has never been accused of.

Last edited by thaskalos; 01-14-2022 at 07:31 PM.
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Old 01-17-2022, 09:44 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by thaskalos View Post
In theory this is an excellent idea...but it fails in the practicality department. The casinos don't want to offer heads-up fixed odds horse betting, because they are afraid of the 'inside information' in the game. And the racetracks in this country only allow parimutuel wagering on their product because this type of betting removes all the financial risk that the sports betting bookies must endure. The racetracks here are against fixed odds horse betting of any kind, because they don't want to book the action on their own game. The only gambling action that the racetracks are interested in is the type where the "house" can safely take its guaranteed cut right off the top.
Good points.
However, as with any type of fixed odds wager, what is stopping the track from taking a rake on the wager in the first place? No mater its form, vig is a vig. The track STILL gets its money.
Lets set it at a minimum of 10% for example. The bettors risk increases or decreases during the wagering period, just like a sports bet, where the house adjusts the vig according to the direction of the action.
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Old 01-17-2022, 09:48 AM   #9
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[quote=westernmassbob;2779901]
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Originally Posted by thaskalos View Post

Thaskalos , You made some very valid points and prior to my post I did put some thought into the concerns this type of wager would bring. The way I look at it the “ inside information “ could pertain to any sports that are currently being bet on today. Do I think race manipulation would or could happen ? Of course. I do think it should be tried by at least one track and secure a partnership with an outside vendor to assure prevention of a financial risk. BTW this type of wagering already exists with success in Europe.
BINGO, Thank You.
Yes, the Brits have been offering heads up and other types of fixed odds wagering on horse racing for who knows how long.
I don't have a clue where this mentality of "aww, don't try (this) it will never work" came from.
If we applied this current attitude in the world of engineering and construction, there would be no, for example, Hoover Dam.
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Old 01-17-2022, 10:08 AM   #10
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I forget who was, but someone on this forum suggested that tracks should move to a sliding take scale depending on the field size. The smaller the field size the smaller the take and vice versa. That accomplishes multiple things. It puts an incentive in place for players to bet races with small fields they might otherwise pass and gives the tracks more information on the impact of the track take on handle. I thought that was a great idea.
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Old 01-18-2022, 01:51 PM   #11
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I forget who was, but someone on this forum suggested that tracks should move to a sliding take scale depending on the field size.
Jeff Platt maybe.

Great idea and makes a lot of sense.
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Old 01-20-2022, 08:27 AM   #12
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They do head to head on the exchange in the UK

Bettors set the odds

5% takeout on winning bets.

Allan
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Old 01-20-2022, 03:21 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by thaskalos View Post
Sports betting is the Big Gorilla in the gambling world, and now that sports betting is becoming widely legal, every betting outlet is salivating over the potential sports-betting profits that they could garner for themselves. The racetrack profits pale in comparison, so horse betting isn't exactly viewed with optimism right now. Even the racetracks are more interested in securing a slice of the sports betting pie for themselves...instead of endeavoring to make their own gambling product more appealing as a competing entity.

It takes true innovation to come up with creative solutions when the marketplace becomes ultra-competitive...and "innovation" is something that the horse racing industry has never been accused of.
Here's the problem with the racetracks. The racetracks are supporting the sport they are offering. They have to come up with the purses & maintain the physical race track & grounds & other parts of the physical track. The betting establishments don't have to run the stadiums, pay the players or do anything to put the product on the field.
There would be a lot fewer casinos with sports books & on line sports books if they had to pay the price of running the professional sport they're taking bets on.
Racetracks will always be at an unfair disadvantage in comparison to sports betting.
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Old 01-20-2022, 09:57 PM   #14
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Here's the problem with the racetracks. The racetracks are supporting the sport they are offering. They have to come up with the purses & maintain the physical race track & grounds & other parts of the physical track. The betting establishments don't have to run the stadiums, pay the players or do anything to put the product on the field.
There would be a lot fewer casinos with sports books & on line sports books if they had to pay the price of running the professional sport they're taking bets on.
Racetracks will always be at an unfair disadvantage in comparison to sports betting.
You think it's the same in the UK and Australia? Especially the latter which has thrived over the last 2 decades with the introductions of fixed odds/exchanges?
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Old 01-22-2022, 04:14 PM   #15
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You think it's the same in the UK and Australia? Especially the latter which has thrived over the last 2 decades with the introductions of fixed odds/exchanges?
A different business model with a lot lower facility overhead requirement and employees required.


I do agree that setting a line or odds for a couple horses would be a very difficult proposition.
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