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Old 10-23-2018, 09:35 AM   #1
Gerard02
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Breeders Cup 2018

Anyone know where I can access the full fractions and position calls of the foreign horses? The Racing form doesn’t have it. There’s got to be a place where I can find this info. I hate having to guess with so many horses having blanks in their charts.
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Old 10-23-2018, 09:52 AM   #2
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Anyone know where I can access the full fractions and position calls of the foreign horses? The Racing form doesn’t have it. There’s got to be a place where I can find this info. I hate having to guess with so many horses having blanks in their charts.
That's the problem with foreign PPs. In most cases they don't even record sectionals (fractions) or positions. A few like the English Timeform give a performance figure but in most cases you have to rely on the comments for how a race was run.
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Old 10-23-2018, 10:00 AM   #3
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I know and it stinks. So many times, we have to add foreign horses to our wagers just to cover the unknowns.
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Old 10-23-2018, 10:45 AM   #4
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I know and it stinks. So many times, we have to add foreign horses to our wagers just to cover the unknowns.
I understand, but there is actually a lot of information available. The TimeformUS pps for US races feature write ups for most Euros that come here ( along with their performance ratings ). You can also use the Racing Post website to look up individual horses where you can open up their pps ( similar to Formulator ) and look at who they ran against. Plus, replays of many European Stakes races are available on youtube, even lesser ones. I also believe the BC website makes most, if not all, necessary replays available.

It's a lot of work, but the end result can be well worth it. 20 years ago you had to do a lot more cumbersome work in North America, but the payoff for this was high. In many ways, less information is a great opportunity. You just have to be willing to put in the time.
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Old 10-23-2018, 11:41 AM   #5
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It sucks when the only info for euro horses is a timeform rating and a decent comment line. Plus you also get a finish position, jockey. Wish there was times.
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Old 10-23-2018, 12:18 PM   #6
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Fortunately some English and Irish tracks are using a GPS tracking system that gives you the sectionals, down to each furlong for each horse. They even include stride analysis. The number of these tracks is growing and some U.S. tracks are installing the same system.

Check out the thread here on sectional timing in the U.K. for more details on the subject.

Last edited by bobphilo; 10-23-2018 at 12:24 PM. Reason: Added additional info
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Old 10-23-2018, 12:25 PM   #7
Gerard02
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I’ve used those suggestions. I’m just looking for an easier way to get the info, without having to watch a ton of vids to get the times and positions. I know there are guys out there with programs that provide the information at once.
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Old 10-23-2018, 12:40 PM   #8
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Fortunately some English and Irish tracks are using a GPS tracking system that gives you the sectionals, down to each furlong for each horse. They even include stride analysis. The number of these tracks is growing and some U.S. tracks are installing the same system.

Check out the thread here on sectional timing in the U.K. for more details on the subject.
The outfit that does this is TDT (Total Performance Data). Here's the link:

http://www.totalperformancedata.com
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Old 10-23-2018, 12:49 PM   #9
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Thanks!
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Old 10-23-2018, 01:48 PM   #10
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Thanks!
You're welcome. The number of both foreign and U.S. tracks using this technology is going to increase as bettors see the benefits of precise sectional times, pace analysis and ground loss.

Last edited by bobphilo; 10-23-2018 at 01:53 PM.
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Old 10-23-2018, 02:13 PM   #11
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Unsure how the sectional times will help with Euros.


almost all of their tracks have uphill and downhill potions (Ascot doesnt call the lowest part of its track "swinley bottom" for nothing).


For instance how do you compare a race at Belmont turf course to Newmarkets July course which the last furlong is uphill.


The sectionals over the last furlong at Newmarket will be like watching grass grow. slow.....


Allan
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Old 10-23-2018, 02:36 PM   #12
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Unsure how the sectional times will help with Euros.


almost all of their tracks have uphill and downhill potions (Ascot doesnt call the lowest part of its track "swinley bottom" for nothing).


For instance how do you compare a race at Belmont turf course to Newmarkets July course which the last furlong is uphill.


The sectionals over the last furlong at Newmarket will be like watching grass grow. slow.....


Allan
I think they have inter-track pars and variants similar to U.S. tracks except the differences are more pronounced but are still doable. I know someone in England who uses these adjusted sectionals to good effect. He has a big advantage over other bettors there since very few do pace analysis.

Last edited by bobphilo; 10-23-2018 at 02:38 PM. Reason: Adding additional info.
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Old 10-23-2018, 02:36 PM   #13
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It's not always helpful anyway. The running styles are so different there. I can think of numerous examples if horses who engaged in completely different tactics over here than they did over there. There's just a large degree of guesswork.
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Old 10-23-2018, 02:55 PM   #14
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Sectional times do not play a big part in analysis over here. Most tracks (even the big ones) do not measure sectionals. Sectional timing is still pretty much in it's infancy. There is a growing movement over here to get it in place which is led by Simon Rowlands who writes on the Timeform site and has a sectionals blog on ATR http://www.attheraces.com/blogs/sectional-spotlight. A lot of the time he takes his own times from video recordings. I'd be surprised if he didn't do some kind of analysis for the BC. He has been looking at some of the big races over here and you may find some stuff of interest on his blog. Well worth following him on twitter @RowleyfileRRR.
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Old 10-23-2018, 03:56 PM   #15
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It's not always helpful anyway. The running styles are so different there. I can think of numerous examples if horses who engaged in completely different tactics over here than they did over there. There's just a large degree of guesswork.
Just as Rowlands says that the laws of Physics do not disappear with different types of racing, the principles of Equine Bioenergetics, as laid down in his insightful book, do not change with different racing types. In fact, that's where they are most useful in showing inefficiencies in different running styles.
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