How would you rank them?

[cj]

Originally Posted by GMB@BP

The really good Arrogate beat Gun Runner who beats American Pharoah who beat California Chrome.

I'd argue that wasn't the really good Gun Runner though. He clearly got much better after Dubai.

[fiznow]

1. American Pharoah
2. Arrogate
3.Gun Runner
4. California Chrome

[GMB@BP]

Originally Posted by cj

I'd argue that wasn't the really good Gun Runner though. He clearly got much better after Dubai.

I agree.

We never saw these to race against each other at their peak, I suppose Dubai would be the closest.

Its splitting hairs really.

[cj]

Originally Posted by GMB@BP

I agree.

We never saw these to race against each other at their peak, I suppose Dubai would be the closest.

Its splitting hairs really.

Agree, both were fabulous horses we were lucky to see in such a short span.

[Lemon Drop Husker]

Originally Posted by cj

Agree, both were fabulous horses we were lucky to see in such a short span.

Gun Runner and Arrogate is really a tough call.

I'm more partial to the absolute brilliance flashed by Arrogate over a 4 race stretch of the Travers, BC Classic, Pegasus, and Dubai in which he brought forth memories of the greatest of the greatest from years past. Breaking the track record at Saratoga in which it was half a football field to his nearest contender was unbelievable.

Gun Runner on the other hand put together as strong a resume as one can build over a 2 year stretch nowadays. He is a great grinder that will be remembered well.

At their best: Arrogate
Over a 10 race stretch: Gun Runner

I guess it really comes down to which you prefer.

[cj]

Originally Posted by Lemon Drop Husker

Gun Runner and Arrogate is really a tough call.

I'm more partial to the absolute brilliance flashed by Arrogate over a 4 race stretch of the Travers, BC Classic, Pegasus, and Dubai in which he brought forth memories of the greatest of the greatest from years past. Breaking the track record at Saratoga in which it was half a football field to his nearest contender was unbelievable.

Gun Runner on the other hand put together as strong a resume as one can build over a 2 year stretch nowadays. He is a great grinder that will be remembered well.

At their best: Arrogate
Over a 10 race stretch: Gun Runner

I guess it really comes down to which you prefer.

I agree. I have Gun Runner a little faster than Arrogate, but he also did that at the end of his four year old and early five year old seasons. Had Arrogate held form maybe he is as fast or faster. But as you mention, that is part of the story. Gun Runner stayed good for a longer stretch.

[dilanesp]

Chrome had the best career.

Arrogate had the most raw talent.

Pharoah made the biggest impact.

Gun Runner closed out his career the best.

[ultracapper]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

At their best?

Arrogate
Gun Runner
American Pharoah
California Chrome

I like this order, and I have no prejudice towards CC. Other than the KDerby, AP was pretty one dimensional. Maybe because he was heads better than his generation. When you're just faster than the rest, you hit the lead and don't goof off, I get that. The other 3 were/are more flexible. Arrogate was just a plain old monster at his apex. Great race horse, was he.

[castaway01]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

Chrome had the best career.

Arrogate had the most raw talent.

Pharoah made the biggest impact.

Gun Runner closed out his career the best.

I might change "best career" to "longest career" for Chrome, but otherwise this is how I see it too.

[GMB@BP]

Whats funny is if Shared Belief does not get hurt he may have been better than all these.

[Lemon Drop Husker]

Originally Posted by GMB@BP

Whats funny is if Shared Belief does not get hurt he may have been better than all these.

Yep. That was a pretty special horse. Who knows what he could have been.

[burnsy]

Originally Posted by Lemon Drop Husker

Arrogate is 4-1 against Gun Runner and California Chrome.

Hard to know what AP really was. I think he was great, but not sure he really beat anybody of note.

That's the problem with retiring healthy at 3. It kind of kills the game. AP could of been anything, but no one will ever see it or find out. He never faced the competition the others did so its hard to say.

I like PA's order (at their best) but i might exchange CC to third and make AP fourth. Just for the fact that after the Triple Crown, AP really only had one hard race. Arrogate was a beast but his form lasted like 4 races. CC had the best longevity of all of them though. I mean its hard to rank todays race horses they just seem to come and go. When you have to say "at their best" you know some of them were short runs.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by burnsy

That's the problem with retiring healthy at 3. It kind of kills the game. AP could of been anything, but no one will ever see it or find out. He never faced the competition the others did so its hard to say.

I like PA's order (at their best) but i might exchange CC to third and make AP fourth. Just for the fact that after the Triple Crown, AP really only had one hard race. Arrogate was a beast but his form lasted like 4 races. CC had the best longevity of all of them though. I mean its hard to rank todays race horses they just seem to come and go. When you have to say "at their best" you know some of them were short runs.

One of my very specific disappointments about AP is that in any rational system, he would have met Chrome and that would have been a good race. Chrome was a star both before and after AP's career.

Of course Zenyatta and Rachel never met either. This is a real cancer on this sport. Imagine if Ali and Frazier fought at the same time and never met, or Federer and Nadal.

[Denny]

American Pharoah - A Triple Crown + BC Classic puts him in a league of his own
Gun Runner - Got the better of his main rival in the end
Arrogate - Great for four great races
California Chrome - The least of the four

[burnsy]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

One of my very specific disappointments about AP is that in any rational system, he would have met Chrome and that would have been a good race. Chrome was a star both before and after AP's career.

Of course Zenyatta and Rachel never met either. This is a real cancer on this sport. Imagine if Ali and Frazier fought at the same time and never met, or Federer and Nadal.

I posted something similar two BC's ago. All of them in there would of been a real "Classic." (AP, Chrome, Arrogate) AP, if he improved, could of been the best horse for decades.....and it was all left on the table. That's why i would put Chrome ahead, i agree. Its a detriment when horses like that retire and Chrome stuck it out. That's real sportsmanship.