Our Great Leader Is Not Leading Anybody Apparently

[elysiantraveller]

Originally Posted by dnlgfnk

Well, when more than opinion was requested re: Trump tariff, I would have obliged:

http://nfap.com/wp-content/uploads/2....May-20161.pdf

Clocker is wrong.
That report is wrong.
Heritage Foundation is wrong.
Milton Friedman is wrong.
Adam Smith is wrong.
You are wrong.
I am wrong.

[rastajenk]

Originally Posted by Clocker

He's a realtor. There are no tariffs on real estate.

You usually come off as a fair and balanced guy, but this seems unusually simplistic for you. Ronald Reagan was an actor. You can't just pick a piece of one's past and assume that's the extent of their knowledge, rationale, and judgment.

Sometimes you have to pass the tariff to see what the effect of the tariff is.

[Clocker]

Originally Posted by rastajenk

You usually come off as a fair and balanced guy, but this seems unusually simplistic for you. Ronald Reagan was an actor. You can't just pick a piece of one's past and assume that's the extent of their knowledge, rationale, and judgment.

It's fun to take a cheap shot and stir the pot from time to time. Trump's ignorance of tariffs is something that he has revealed in detail, and something I have discussed here in some detail in the past, with no response from the Trumpsters. So I thought I'd just throw it against the wall and see what sticks.

Also, Reagan knew what he didn't know, and listened to his advisors. Trump tends more to operate on instinct and on his personal experience. Reagan was an actor, but he was also an effective union leader and a governor of California.

[rastajenk]

Fair enough, but I don't see Trump the way you do. I think he gets good advice and processes it as well as anyone else might.

Now for contrast, just to rile up the libs, we have eight years of The One saying, "All options are on the table (but I've already made up my mind so why bother)."

[Clocker]

Originally Posted by rastajenk

Fair enough, but I don't see Trump the way you do. I think he gets good advice and processes it as well as anyone else might.

Some yes, some no. I am comparing his campaign speeches with his actions in office. I have been pleasantly surprised by many of his decisions to date (or his lack of interference in the workings of Congress), often in contrast to his campaign rhetoric.

His rhetoric on tariffs has been seriously ignorant of the consequences of his proposals. Tariffs have costs that are borne entirely by American consumers. He has shown no indication that he understands this.

[kingfin66]

Originally Posted by elysiantraveller

Here ya go bud...

It was all R after that...

Dammit, I should have voted for Harambe too. Why didn't I think of that?

[Fager Fan]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Regardless...there's no chance for lasting peace between the Gentiles and Israel. None. Nada. Zip. (And Slim is pushing up daisies.) Trump's actions, as good as his intentions are, will only fan the flame of hatred the Gentiles have for Israel. Trump, unwittingly painted, a larger target on Israel's back.

I don't think so. I posted early on that this may be a good strategic move. Someone posted an article a few posts back saying that this isn't having the huge negative reaction that was expected, and that it may be putting pressure on the Palestinians that previously wasn't there. So let's see how this shakes out.

[Fager Fan]

Originally Posted by Clocker

It's fun to take a cheap shot and stir the pot from time to time. Trump's ignorance of tariffs is something that he has revealed in detail, and something I have discussed here in some detail in the past, with no response from the Trumpsters. So I thought I'd just throw it against the wall and see what sticks.

Also, Reagan knew what he didn't know, and listened to his advisors. Trump tends more to operate on instinct and on his personal experience. Reagan was an actor, but he was also an effective union leader and a governor of California.

Reagan broke the union bigger than anyone when he ordered air traffic controllers to work or be fired.

Maybe your opinion on tariffs isn't the correct one.

[Clocker]

Originally Posted by Fager Fan

Reagan broke the union bigger than anyone when he ordered air traffic controllers to work or be fired.

Maybe your opinion on tariffs isn't the correct one.

Air traffic controllers on strike broke the law. Federal employees know when they are hired that strikes are illegal. They knew that, but went on strike anyway, and most stayed out even after Reagan said he would fire them.

My opinion on tariffs is based on the economic reality that most of them are designed to protect selected industries against foreign competition at the cost of American consumers. And outside of agricultural products, where the protection is often also enforced by quotas, they generally don't work. Recent manufacturing job loss breaks down into 20% moving off-shore and 80% replaced by automation.

The major result of protectionist tariffs is higher prices for consumers.

[Fager Fan]

Originally Posted by Clocker

Air traffic controllers on strike broke the law. Federal employees know when they are hired that strikes are illegal. They knew that, but went on strike anyway, and most stayed out even after Reagan said he would fire them.

My opinion on tariffs is based on the economic reality that most of them are designed to protect selected industries against foreign competition at the cost of American consumers. And outside of agricultural products, where the protection is often also enforced by quotas, they generally don't work. Recent manufacturing job loss breaks down into 20% moving off-shore and 80% replaced by automation.

The major result of protectionist tariffs is higher prices for consumers.

There was a reason why Reagan held that power. He couldn't fire striking workers at the Nabisco factory. The point was that you brought up Reagan as being kind of a pro-union guy when I saw no sign of that during his Presidency and his action towards the air traffic controllers was the strongest action towards a union that I recall a President making.

I'd suggest there is a sweet spot between no taxes and high taxes. You act as though total free trade is the only way that is "right" when our trading partners don't have total free trade with us. You keep saying Trump is an idiot on the matter, and no offense to you, but I don't know what expertise you can claim over Trump and his advisors. Frankly, Trump seems to be landing on the right decisions so I'd quit knocking him, see what he does, then see how it works out.

By the way, who cares if we have to pay 20 cents more for the cheap crap at the Dollar Store produced by China? There's no law that says higher prices are always bad. There is good and bad to low prices and high prices. One always has to find the sweet spot.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Fager Fan

I don't think so. I posted early on that this may be a good strategic move. Someone posted an article a few posts back saying that this isn't having the huge negative reaction that was expected, and that it may be putting pressure on the Palestinians that previously wasn't there. So let's see how this shakes out.

Remember: I did say no lasting peace.

Rev 20:7-10
7 And when the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison, 8 and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore. 9 And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them.
NASB

Notice the definite article before the term "war". It's called THE war for a reason (actually multiple reasons).

And, of course, the "beloved city" certainly isn't Vatican City. It's Jerusalem and the "camp of the saints" are the redeemed, believing Jews in Israel, thus fulfilling what the apostle Paul in Romans 11 said would happen when the "fullness of the Gentiles" reaches its zenith. (The phrase means when all the elect Gentiles are brought into God's kingdom.)

Zecharia 14 describes what happens when the Lord goes to battle for his people in the above mentioned war:

Zech 14:12-13
12 Now this will be the plague with which the Lord will strike all the peoples who have gone to war against Jerusalem; their flesh will rot while they stand on their feet, and their eyes will rot in their sockets, and their tongue will rot in their mouth. 13 And it will come about in that day that a great panic from the Lord will fall on them; and they will seize one another's hand, and the hand of one will be lifted against the hand of another.
NASB

Truly, all these things will come to past; for this is how this age will end upon Christ's return. The first time he came, the Prince of Peace came lowly and humble and in peace; but the second time comes, he'll come as a majestic, glorious, all-powerful conquering King making war upon his enemies and the enemies of Israel. All the peoples of the earth will drink from the cup of His fierce wrath.

[elysiantraveller]

Originally Posted by Fager Fan

There was a reason why Reagan held that power. He couldn't fire striking workers at the Nabisco factory. The point was that you brought up Reagan as being kind of a pro-union guy when I saw no sign of that during his Presidency and his action towards the air traffic controllers was the strongest action towards a union that I recall a President making.

I'd suggest there is a sweet spot between no taxes and high taxes. You act as though total free trade is the only way that is "right" when our trading partners don't have total free trade with us. You keep saying Trump is an idiot on the matter, and no offense to you, but I don't know what expertise you can claim over Trump and his advisors. Frankly, Trump seems to be landing on the right decisions so I'd quit knocking him, see what he does, then see how it works out.

By the way, who cares if we have to pay 20 cents more for the cheap crap at the Dollar Store produced by China? There's no law that says higher prices are always bad. There is good and bad to low prices and high prices. One always has to find the sweet spot.

Literally ever major economist and capitalist disagrees. Key figures in Trumps own administration openly disagree with him. His campaign admitted it would hurt the American consumer.

You talk about free trade but then complain about a trade deficit so which is it? You don't get to fix both.

Apparently you are of the opinion the American consumer is too stupid to know goods he or she shouldn't buy... and I get called the liberal on here...

[Clocker]

Originally Posted by Fager Fan

The point was that you brought up Reagan as being kind of a pro-union guy when I saw no sign of that during his Presidency and his action towards the air traffic controllers was the strongest action towards a union that I recall a President making.

I was talking about administrative experience. As head of the actor's union, Reagan was an effective leader. As president, he was effective in enforcing laws about unions.

By the way, who cares if we have to pay 20 cents more for the cheap crap at the Dollar Store produced by China? There's no law that says higher prices are always bad. There is good and bad to low prices and high prices. One always has to find the sweet spot.

We aren't talking about 20 cents here or a dollar there. By the estimates of Trump's own campaign, we are talking about a 10-15% increase in the total cost of living of the average American worker.

It is not the president's job to find the "sweet spot" in prices. All evidence shows that the free market does that much more efficiently than the bureaucrats in Washington.

[elysiantraveller]

Originally Posted by Fager Fan

I'd suggest there is a sweet spot between no taxes and high taxes. You act as though total free trade is the only way that is "right" when our trading partners don't have total free trade with us. You keep saying Trump is an idiot on the matter, and no offense to you, but I don't know what expertise you can claim over Trump and his advisors. Frankly, Trump seems to be landing on the right decisions so I'd quit knocking him, see what he does, then see how it works out.

I totally agree with the bolded. The less Trump does that he campaigned on and you people voted for the better. A real objective look at his first year would show he has failed on a lot of his campaign promises, tariffs, ACA (not happy about this one), the wall while having some success in other issues, tax reform, dreamer act, Russian Sanctions. I can live with that.

[Fager Fan]

Originally Posted by elysiantraveller

Literally ever major economist and capitalist disagrees. Key figures in Trumps own administration openly disagree with him. His campaign admitted it would hurt the American consumer.

You talk about free trade but then complain about a trade deficit so which is it? You don't get to fix both.

Apparently you are of the opinion the American consumer is too stupid to know goods he or she shouldn't buy... and I get called the liberal on here...

I didn't say a word about a trade deficit, and the rest of your post makes no sense whatsoever. Do you have any idea what you're talking about?