Pool Manipulation

[mountainman]

Without having monitored amounts wagered in these respective win pools, just the improbable late fluctuations, I would estimate that somebody cancelled about 2k at the eleventh hour on Mounted Cop (who wound up third) in Wednesday's 3rd race. This (presumably same) player, by my guess, removed even a bit more from Ferlin Husky, winner of race two.

There could be no way any heeled handicapper would that strongly prefer Executive Decree, the decisive favorite, to win against the prevalent grain at the expense of the better drawn Ferlin Husky, much less send a big bet in too late for the winner's supporters to smell value and retaliate. So to me, it seems probable that some enterprising Ferlin Husky supporter successfuly maniupulated the other camp.

As to Mounted Cop, I strongly doubt that eventual winner Chairman Garey would have gone lower in the win-pool without somebody pulling money from Mounted Cop in a manuever designed to inflate the third finisher's price.

[westernmassbob]

Pool manipulation. Apparently Mahoning will not show pick 6 will pays because of fear of pool manipulation....whatever that means. I asked and they won’t explain it to me.

Anyway quick story about some real pool manipulation. This took place over several years at the now defunct Hinsdale Greyhound park New Hampshire. ( btw they are the ones who spearheaded the 10cent superfecta) There was a very good dog capper who would seed win pools to throw off bettors. It usually secured him a better trifecta payoff. For example let’s say he liked the 2 dog to win or come in second. He knew the 7 dog didn’t have a chance in heck so he would bet 500 on the dog to throw off all of the sky pilots. Sky pilots were the bettors who would bet off the board. They see the 7 as the big favorite it moves all the money around. He would cancel the win wager right before the race and have his top dog wheeled for first and second in the tris etc. This wasn’t done every race....he picked his spots. Over the course of a month he did it about a dozen times. I imagine similar things have been done with harness and t-bred races.

[lamboguy]

this is the first time i have ever heard someone from a racing office admit there is pool manipulation that has been going on blatantly for the past 25 years.. it not only goes on in Mountaineer, but it happens all over..

as far as i know, this falls under the umbrella of a federal law in tampering with a pari-mutuel betting pool.

by the way, betting the break is not considered as breaking this law because wagering is allowed as long as the pool is open. cancelling a bet to deceive other pari-mutuel players is against the federal law.

[mountainman]

I believe it's far less common than late money being honestly piled onto a horse, but to think it never happens would be naive. And I have no proof that it was done wednesday-just a suspicion based on my experience at mnr as a linesmaker and handicapper. And I certainly could be wrong. Maybe I simply misjudged where the money would wind up in those two races.

[classhandicapper]

It's a tough problem to fix and enforce.

In the days of NYCOTB, clerks were not allowed to cancel any Win bet over a certain size (can't remember the amount) or any exotic combination over $50 within in the last minute or so without the manager's approval. That's how they tried to limit pool manipulation. It's a different world now.

[westernmassbob]

I suspect this is why some tracks pay a consolation on pick 3 and 4’s and not move the scratches to the post time favorite. It apparently happened with one of those rainbow type pick 6 pools with the pot going to a single ticket holder. A late
scratch caused another ticket to go to post time favorite which could have resulted in 2 tickets on what should have gone off the pt favorite. Very late
win bet changed all that.

[Robert Fischer]

Originally Posted by mountainman

Without having monitored amounts wagered in these respective win pools, just the improbable late fluctuations, I would estimate that somebody cancelled about 2k at the eleventh hour on Mounted Cop (who wound up third) in Wednesday's 3rd race. This (presumably same) player, by my guess, removed even a bit more from Ferlin Husky, winner of race two.

There could be no way any heeled handicapper would that strongly prefer Executive Decree, the decisive favorite, to win against the prevalent grain at the expense of the better drawn Ferlin Husky, much less send a big bet in too late for the winner's supporters to smell value and retaliate. So to me, it seems probable that some enterprising Ferlin Husky supporter successfully manipulated the other camp.

As to Mounted Cop, I strongly doubt that eventual winner Chairman Garey would have gone lower in the win-pool without somebody pulling money from Mounted Cop in a manuever designed to inflate the third finisher's price.

Had the same 'cognitive dissonance' when seeing the behavior of the odds for this race.

Made no sense. Ferlin Husky was arguably a little better on form. was slightly favored on the ML. There was a significant moderate negative-rail(paths1-3) bias that night (going against the unexpected Heavy Chalk Executive Decree, which had been clearly presenting itself.

Interesting race, and a fascinating topic.
I'd like to hear more about some theories and insights as to 'why'.

[lamboguy]

they can manipulate the pool all they want tonight in the 6th race at Mountain and i am going to get the same price no matter what they do on DARREN'S FORTUNE