One vs. Two Turn Races

[five-eighths]

I've been trying to look for an answer and couldn't find it.

With regards to 1 vs. 2 turn races with the same distance, for example a 6f race at a big track like Belmont is only one turn, but one at a smaller track would be two turns, does that extra turn favor front runner type horses or stalking/closing type horses?

[DeltaLover]

Originally Posted by five-eighths

I've been trying to look for an answer and couldn't find it.

With regards to 1 vs. 2 turn races with the same distance, for example a 6f race at a big track like Belmont is only one turn, but one at a smaller track would be two turns, does that extra turn favor front runner type horses or stalking/closing type horses?

How would you find it? What you have tried already ?

[five-eighths]

Originally Posted by DeltaLover

How would you find it? What you have tried already ?

Just trying to search for articles via google.

Thinking that extra turn would be troublesome for horses with less class, and also thinking the shorter stretch run would favor front runners, just not seeing any literature on that.

[Dave Schwartz]

Interesting idea for a study.

In my software we do not list the number of turns. However, we do list the distance of the oval.

I will put this study on my agenda and report something. Some day. Possibly soon.

[Ocala Mike]

Not carved in stone, but I've always intuiitively felt that the more turns, the more "E/P" type horses are favored.

A trip in the wayback machine when Belmont had something called the Widener chute (1950's) that ran diagonally from Floral Park to the finish line, cutting across the training track, 6f sprints were commonly won by middle of the pack closers.

[PhantomOnTour]

I love the one turn two turn dynamic that comes into play when NY racing makes the Bel-Sar-Bel move every summer & fall.
What I look for are runners who seem to prefer the one turn routes at Bel vs the two turn variety they run at Sar, or anywhere else...distance preference is also a factor as the shortest route run at Sar on dirt is 1m1/8 while Bel runs 1m and 1m16.

Route winners at the Bel spring/summer meet may not like the two turns at Sar, and vice versa when they return to Bel.

[Robert Fischer]

Originally Posted by five-eighths

I've been trying to look for an answer and couldn't find it.

With regards to 1 vs. 2 turn races with the same distance, for example a 6f race at a big track like Belmont is only one turn, but one at a smaller track would be two turns, does that extra turn favor front runner type horses or stalking/closing type horses?

It calls into play the racing dynamics of an additional turn near the starting gate. This favors tactical speed and reasonable post position draw. A quick start and a quick burst to get position, and a jock who knows what he's doing, is worth more than plain ol' early speed.

[whodoyoulike]

Originally Posted by five-eighths

I've been trying to look for an answer and couldn't find it.

With regards to 1 vs. 2 turn races with the same distance, for example a 6f race at a big track like Belmont is only one turn, but one at a smaller track would be two turns, does that extra turn favor front runner type horses or stalking/closing type horses?

A 6f race with 2 turns??

Which tracks are you looking at?

Are these "bull rings" because the dynamics of running are very different than at 1 mile ovals?

[ultracapper]

Fairplex at the LA County Fair was a 2 turn 6f race. Isn't Portland Meadows? Maybe the track in Vancouver BC? Not sure if these are 6f ovals or not. I could look it up, but too lazy.

[ultracapper]

Isn't Charlestown or Mountaineer? One of those in W. Virginia runs a 3 turn 1 1/16th if I'm not mistaken. Didn't Game On Dude win a 3 turn 1 1/8th at one of those a couple years ago? That would suggest a 2 turn 6 1/2 or 7 furlong race, if not a 6f 2 turner.

[dirty moose]

http://helloracefans.com/handicappin...onfigurations/

[pandy]

Originally Posted by dirty moose

http://helloracefans.com/handicappin...onfigurations/

This is good information. It's important to know the difference because the times are much faster around one turn.

Generally speaking, one turn races are better for outside posts. Two turn races are good for inside posts, bad for outside posts. As far as speed, at some tracks inside speed does very well in two turn routes but speed from the outside tends to do well in one turn races.

Sometimes it's best to ignore a horse's subpar speed figure when it gets an outside post in a two turn race. Sometimes the horse is caught wide and the jockey doesn't bother pushing the horse, or the horse is a leaver but the jockey can't leave from the wide draw so the horse is out of it's style. Many of these horses come back from a better post and run well at a price.

[Valuist]

Sportsman's Park was a 5/8th mile track where the 6 furlong races were around two turns. The first few years I was betting it, speed was deadly. Then there was a year or two with a very strong, prolonged outside bias that made the previous years results irrelevant.

[five-eighths]

Originally Posted by Dave Schwartz

Interesting idea for a study.

In my software we do not list the number of turns. However, we do list the distance of the oval.

I will put this study on my agenda and report something. Some day. Possibly soon.

Thanks Dave, wasn't trying to stump anybody , appreciate all of the info on your site, watched a number of your videos on my handicapping journey.

[five-eighths]

Originally Posted by whodoyoulike

A 6f race with 2 turns??

Which tracks are you looking at?

Are these "bull rings" because the dynamics of running are very different than at 1 mile ovals?

My home track Hazel Park runs two turn 5.5 and 6f races on a regular basis on a 5/8 mile track. They have even ran 3 turn 1 mile races on occasion.