"I'm disappointed with the trip", Brown said

[GMB@BP]

Originally Posted by f2tornado

I guess Jose Ortiz and Jerry Bailey are flat earth material too.

Jerry Bailey said Justify should not run in the Derby after watching the SA Derby, his opinion, at times, seem clouded.

Tremendous positional rider though!

[GMB@BP]

Jose Ortiz says pace was slow...ok, his opinion, numbers dont back it up

Ortiz says it was a bad ride...his opinion, whole thread has 3/4 quarters saying it was a good ride.

They are riders, not handicappers. and that goes for many a trainer as well.

[f2tornado]

Originally Posted by Robert Fischer

Because claiming that Raw Times can be compared meaningfully across races, is analogous to claiming that the Earth is Flat.

I don't claim anything of the sort. I only claim there has not been a sub 1:11 6F call prep at any track in the country. Using your BA analogy, the 6F batting average is weaker this year while the parks are the same. If 1:11+ is the new HOF material then so be it. We can agree to disagree. It's really not worth getting in a pissing match over.

[clicknow]

Originally Posted by GMB@BP

They are riders, not handicappers. and that goes for many a trainer as well.

and we are handicappers, not riders.

There are things "we" will never be able to perceive "in the moment" like a rider can. They can see the gaits of others in front of them, tell by watching their back legs if the horse is tiring, they have a kinetic connection to the horse they are on and can see up close what ears, etc. are doing, as well as feel what is under them in any 10 second time span.

This is why, while you can watch a replay 50 times, you will never have that kinetic feel-based connection with any horse in the race.......you are only *watching*.

Numbers after the race do help validate perceptions either way. Still not the whole story.