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Old 06-22-2008, 10:38 PM   #16
Dave Schwartz
 
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Well, the good news is I get to vote for my candidate just like last time.

LOL - I don't even know what Nader stands for personally, but for me he stands for change. Come to think of it, I haven't voted for a Rebup or Dem since before Reagan's time.


I am by no means an anarchist... (evidenced by the fact that I support whoever gets elected. Okay, W has been tough and so was Bill.) ... but I want change.

And by "change," I mean "real change." I don't mean "the liberal way" or the "conservative way."

I mean that I want the elected to serve their country rather than big business.


I vote for CAMPAIGN REFORM. (Where is that running?)


Dave
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Old 06-22-2008, 10:52 PM   #17
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Iwill vote for someone, something, but it will not be McCain. A voe for Mcain is a vote for the mindless morons who have taken over the republican party. The message to them must be loud and clear - you guys are NOT supported at all. You all suck eggs and we will not voe for you if you do not represent OUR views. The current repub party must be totally destroyed and burried.

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Old 06-23-2008, 12:57 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage
I honestly find ptruckdriver and Sec's posts bordering on insanity, I truly do.All our rights? Are you mad? Which rights are gone? Obviously, not the right to be insane in public.

Last I checked, I have every single right I used to have before Bush took office.

....

So tell me big boy, which rights of mine have been taken away by George W. Bush? Which right was taken away, that was SO important, I plum forgot about it?
According to the Associated Press, here is a list.

FREEDOM OF ASSOCIATION: Government may monitor religious and political institutions without suspecting criminal activity to assist terror investigations.

FREEDOM OF INFORMATION: Government has closed once-public immigration hearings, has secretly detained hundreds of people without charges, and has encouraged bureaucrats to resist public records questions.

FREEDOM OF SPEECH: Government may prosecute librarians or keepers of any other records if they tell anyone that the government subpoenaed information related to a terror investigation.

RIGHT TO LEGAL REPRESENTATION: Government may monitor federal prison jailhouse conversations between attorneys and clients, and deny lawyers to Americans accused of crimes.

FREEDOM FROM UNREASONABLE SEARCHES: Government may search and seize Americans' papers and effects without probable cause to assist terror investigation.

RIGHT TO A SPEEDY AND PUBLIC TRIAL: Government may jail Americans indefinitely without a trial.

RIGHT TO LIBERTY: Americans may be jailed without being charged or being able to confront witnesses against them.
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Old 06-23-2008, 01:00 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom
Iwill vote for someone, something, but it will not be McCain. A voe for Mcain is a vote for the mindless morons who have taken over the republican party. The message to them must be loud and clear - you guys are NOT supported at all. You all suck eggs and we will not voe for you if you do not represent OUR views. The current repub party must be totally destroyed and burried.

\



U da man, Tom! I'd vote fer you too.

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Old 06-23-2008, 01:07 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Greyfox
Tom, I don't care who you vote for, but vote.

Other questionable choices:
Bob Barr Libertarian
Chuck Baldwin Constitution
Cynthia McKinney Green
Ralph Nader Independent

What a cast of actors.
What about NoBama!? (Geesh, this guy don't get no respect.)

Maybe I'll vote for him. This country needs a very loud wake up call to awaken it from its mental lethargy (and maybe even its moral relativism) -- to remind everyone of the Carter days and just how bad that era really was.

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Old 06-23-2008, 01:21 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by boxcar


U da man, Tom! I'd vote fer you too.

Boxcar
So the other third party candidates are less moronic than McCain? Granted the choices are dismal and after this massive, fraudulent,pathetic excuse of an administration who has done NOTHING to encourage conservatism --one could be desperate enough to vote for the character in "Weekend at Bernies".
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Old 06-23-2008, 01:24 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Schwartz

I mean that I want the elected to serve their country rather than big business.

Dave
You and the poster who started this topic seem to have figured it out about right.

Don't let the Free Traders hear you talk like that. Where would we be without unrestricted trade, no intervention, and free flow of labor and capital across nations? Where would we be without Globalism, immigrants, off-shoring and out-sourcing?

But hey, that's free trade. It creates winners. And losers.

I just don't think they forsaw that *we* would be the losers.

Sitting on a historically high negative trade balance with China. And the value of our dollar dropping like a big rock.

(When I pointed this out 2 decades ago, I was called a socialist).

Our masters are huge, multi-national corporations. And, we must do their bidding. BUY STUFF!

And.........whatever you do.........make sure you live beyond your means. Without the constant desire for MORE MORE MORE (with the credit card companies providing the means) ........where would we be? It's your patriotic duty to do this.

No seriously, folks. My immediate remedy is not something politicians can give us. What we need is for Americans to start living a more reasonable lifestyles, live simply within their means......not everyone *needs* granite countertops and 500 sq. ft. kitchens.

If we sink further into recession, or even depression.....those who have lived within their means, who have had the self-discipline to do so, who find contentment in family and sports and community and living simply......will weather it. What little they own, is theirs.

Those who own everything thru debt, loans, and credit cards --- will be in dire straits.

I think about the way I was raised in the 50s......and my lifestyle is still based on those very conservative, old fashioned values.

But the bright side is that gambling seems to do very well during these times. I'd sure rather bet on the horses than the politicians anyway. At least you might get something back.
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Old 06-23-2008, 02:13 AM   #23
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The candidates. They are all flawed. Underneath their public congeniality, they all have a hard edge and a ruthless ambition that has nothing to do with the public welfare or the good of the country. They want to win. Right now, that's their obsession.

It isn't necessary to like a candidate. It isn't necessary to imagine that he or she is your friend. All people have to do is make a calculated decision that this particular candidate is more likely to make a better president than the others.

Then, having cast your vote, you go about your business, because the American people have virtually no control of their government once Election Day passes. Our republican form of government gives complete power to the officeholders for their full terms. Unless you contributed big, big bucks, you aren't likely to receive any personal attention from any of them except on his or her terms.

Another point to keep in mind is that all of the problems the candidates are now promising to solve-- are problems they themselves created.
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Old 06-23-2008, 02:42 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Secretariat
FREEDOM OF ASSOCIATION: Government may monitor religious and political institutions without suspecting criminal activity to assist terror investigations.
Are you saying every single religious or political institution is currently under investigation for terrorist-related activities? Even my local Roman Catholic church? I didn't think so....so what right of mine was taken away again?

Quote:
FREEDOM OF INFORMATION: Government has closed once-public immigration hearings, has secretly detained hundreds of people without charges, and has encouraged bureaucrats to resist public records questions.
Are you baffling me with bullshit? What right of mine here was taken away?

Quote:
FREEDOM OF SPEECH: Government may prosecute librarians or keepers of any other records if they tell anyone that the government subpoenaed information related to a terror investigation.
Again, what right of mine was taken away here? My right to be a librarian and inform a suspected terrorist he might be under investigation? Huh?

Quote:
RIGHT TO LEGAL REPRESENTATION: Government may monitor federal prison jailhouse conversations between attorneys and clients, and deny lawyers to Americans accused of crimes.
This one sounds meaty. Hasn't all telephone calls and meetings been monitored in jail? This doesn't mean they can use anything recorded in a court of law. Attorney/Client privilege still holds.

How many Americans have been denied a lawyer when accused of a crime?

Quote:
FREEDOM FROM UNREASONABLE SEARCHES: Government may search and seize Americans' papers and effects without probable cause to assist terror investigation.
I can safely say that 99% of Americans will not be a part of any terror investigation. But hey, I guess you got me here....

Quote:
RIGHT TO A SPEEDY AND PUBLIC TRIAL: Government may jail Americans indefinitely without a trial.
No they may not. How many Americans have been jailed indefinitely without a trial? Are you saying if I burn down my neighbors house, I will sit in jail forever without a trial? I think not....

Quote:
RIGHT TO LIBERTY: Americans may be jailed without being charged or being able to confront witnesses against them.
Really? If I am accused of stealing a car, are you saying I won't be able to confront the person who accuses me of stealing their car? I think not....
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Old 06-23-2008, 03:08 AM   #25
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If we sink further into recession, or even depression.....those who have lived within their means, who have had the self-discipline to do so, who find contentment in family and sports and community and living simply......will weather it. What little they own, is theirs.
I do not see this as the answer to anything. If we really enter a depression, your frugality will not even save you let alone the country.

We're sliding downward and the change that is needed is not about "living within ones means."


Just my opinion.


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Old 06-23-2008, 07:57 AM   #26
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I do not see this as the answer to anything. If we really enter a depression, your frugality will not even save you let alone the country.
I admit to being a bit hyperbolic there. I was eluding to a certain amount of self-sufficiency making things a bit less painful.

Actually, Dave, energy is what worries me the most. The rest of the political stuff is on the back-burner for me. We cannot survive the massive bankruptcies that will result from lack of, or unaffordable, fuel. It affects every sector.

Richard Branson, the famed entrepreneur seems visibly "shaken" by the reality that we cannot go forward in our present dependency on oil. He's heavily invested in other forms of energy..but it appears it may not be soon enough. Branson was on some CNN special and he says we've had absolutely terrible leadership in this regard......non existent, actually. Many Americans don't realize that as China is emerging, they are using massive quantities of oil/gas. They are, and will be competing with us for oil. Exploration, drilling and building refineries will take at least a decade. We can't wait that long. And we don't know when THAT would run out. Heck, we don't even know what the Arabs have......how much oil is down in the ground there? Maybe less than we think?

It's a very dismal situation. If you go to Brazil, they are happily skipping along without having to use much. That was our biggest mistake.....giving serious consideration to getting off oil was something we should have started doing 30 years ago. (Of course, if the world's major economies collapse, nobody will be skipping along whether they use oil or not).

A new President in 2008 is not going to *fix* this. For me, this election is just about not having Bush. It's a step forward, but no panacea.
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Old 06-23-2008, 08:50 AM   #27
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Right to be fondled

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Quote:
Are you saying every single religious or political institution is currently under investigation for terrorist-related activities? Even my local Roman Catholic church? I didn't think so....so what right of mine was taken away again?
No but you have the right to be fondled in the Catholic church. How many settlements have been made by this church, the catholic church. Yet has anyone done time behind bars?? But many thousands have done therapy I'm sure, right?
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Old 06-23-2008, 10:55 AM   #28
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Winter,

Now you have made a staement that I can agree with.

Good post.

Dave
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Old 06-23-2008, 11:05 AM   #29
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So the other third party candidates are less moronic than McCain? Granted the choices are dismal and after this massive, fraudulent,pathetic excuse of an administration who has done NOTHING to encourage conservatism --one could be desperate enough to vote for the character in "Weekend at Bernies".
Are you suggesting Tom has been dead all along?

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Old 06-23-2008, 11:45 AM   #30
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Are you suggesting Tom has been dead all along?

Boxcar
I think I will drill right here!

Oh my! A gusher!

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