NYRA: Saratoga Race Course’s Summer Season Will Likely Occur Without Fans

[Suff]

Originally Posted by Suff

I found a small hole to squeeze into though. I'm going fans or no fans.




But on the off-chance that they allow limited fans, I was able to buy a 2020 season ticket. This might be a play & it was only a $59 risk.

[RStetson]

Yeah, I got that today as well. Not clear if that means no general admission all season and if, on the off chance they do get the okay for fans, they will only sell some grandstand seats.

[PaceAdvantage]

It definitely does NOT mean no admission to fans all season.

But, since they aren't letting fans in on day 1, they have to offer refunds.

Notice it says UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE, meaning, the situation could easily change.

[classhandicapper]

If I had to guess, I think they'll start with a limited numbers of owners before they consider some fans.

[GMB@BP]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

It definitely does NOT mean no admission to fans all season.

But, since they aren't letting fans in on day 1, they have to offer refunds.

Notice it says UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE, meaning, the situation could easily change.

say you are like sick wtth Covid or something, if you dont request the refund do you get the money back?

Why do you have to "request" something that has been cancelled?

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by GMB@BP

say you are like sick wtth Covid or something, if you dont request the refund do you get the money back?

Why do you have to "request" something that has been cancelled?

What has been cancelled? They are only stating as of opening day, no fans...they also say "until further notice" which means fans could be allowed at some point, obviously.

[Suff]

Originally Posted by class

andicapper;2626294]If I had to guess, I think they'll start with a limited numbers of owners before they consider some fans.

Racetracks are porous and breaches are inevitable. It's covered in Chapter 9, Section 2 of my manual.

Breaches- Dodge, Weave & Move Tactics.







Sunday @ Gulfstream w/ Angel Stanley , he was cleared to start riding here according to him. Hawthorne, Hoosier Park & leading rider , Mohaning, Hazel Park, 2103-15.

[groupie doll]

Originally Posted by Suff

I found a small hole to squeeze into though. I'm going fans or no fans.

[classhandicapper]

Well, we finally got a partial answer to the debate about whether all the trainers are even going to stable in Saratoga this year. This is an incomplete, but not insignificant list despite everything going as well as it could possibly go in NY. It would have been way worse had the virus continued to be a big problem in NY. (we also know Gary Contessa wasn't thrilled with the idea a couple of months back).

https://www.drf.com/news/lukas-among...r-fewer-stalls

"Lukas, who won six trainers’ titles at Saratoga from 1986-92, said he will keep his stable in Kentucky for the summer after much of his help expressed a desire not to go to New York because of the COVID-19 situation."

"Trainer Rusty Arnold said he is taking only four stalls this summer. Arnold said he has had the same 17-stall barn “forever” and has been renting the same house since 1985."

"Trainer Brad Cox was assigned 40 stalls at Saratoga. He will take only 10 and ship in and out from Belmont and Churchill. Cox said he has employees who, after they’re done at the barn in the morning, have second jobs on the frontside in the afternoon. Those jobs, such as busing tables at ontrack restaurants that will be closed this summer, are not available. It’s great to have 40 stalls up there, and it sounds good, but you can’t have 40 horses and two grooms and two exercise riders,” Cox said. “It made more sense to stay there at Belmont.”

"Several New York-based trainers will be severely cutting back the number of stalls they are taking at Saratoga and will ship up most of their runners from Belmont. Linda Rice, who typically takes 50 to Saratoga, will only have 12 in Saratoga. Rice said she has employees with children who usually attend summer camp in Saratoga. Those camps are closed. “It’s put a real burden on them, and with the owners and fans not allowed to come to the races, I said we’ll do it differently this year,” Rice said."

"Jimmy Toner said he won’t take any stalls at Saratoga and ship up on race day.

Jimmy Jerkens will take only six or seven stalls."

"On Friday, Gary Sciacca was plotting out how many horses he was going to take to Saratoga when he got word that one of his employees tested positive for COVID-19."

[westernmassbob]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

Well, we finally got a partial answer to the debate about whether all the trainers are even going to stable in Saratoga this year. This is an incomplete, but not insignificant list despite everything going as well as it could possibly go in NY. It would have been way worse had the virus continued to be a big problem in NY. (we also know Gary Contessa wasn't thrilled with the idea a couple of months back).

https://www.drf.com/news/lukas-among...r-fewer-stalls

Is it safe to say that Saratoga field size this year will look like Aqueduct in the middle of the winter? Looking ahead to entries it doesn’t look like anything out of the ordinary. How is that possible based on the info you provided ?

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by westernmassbob

Is it safe to say that Saratoga field size this year will look like Aqueduct in the middle of the winter? Looking ahead to entries it doesn’t look like anything out of the ordinary. How is that possible based on the info you provided ?

I have no idea how many horses will ship in from Belmont each race day. It should still be very successful.

A couple of months ago I heard privately that many trainers were against racing at Saratoga because the costs are so much higher, the track was going to be closed to fans, and there would be limitations on activities and work opportunities in town etc.. Now they are coming public.

That evolved into a discussion about the "brand" value of Saratoga generating more handle.

I think the evidence shows that people will bet whichever track is open and generally flock to higher quality racing. The Saratoga "brand" has a LOT to do with live attendance (but that will not happen this year). A lot of the rest of the handle has to do with the unique quality of Saratoga racing compared to a winter at AQU for example. So to attribute the difference in handle between AQU and SAR to "brand' misses the point that people would bet millions on the Travers if it was held at Fonner Park.

As I said from the start, the way better argument for Saratoga is the claim that the Belmont turf courses won't be able to handle the load and they'd have to move to AQU anyway. You can also throw in trying to help the Saratoga community because it is so closely tied to racing.

I'm hoping for a very successful meet even though a lot of trainers and owners were against going. Financially, the fact that alternatives for gambling dollars like casinos and sports betting are still very limited is a huge plus.

[burnsy]

I agree with some of that with exception of the brand value statement. A good portion of Saratoga support is local. I mean from here (Toga) to NYC and across to Boston, out to Buffalo and even Southern Canada. Most of these folks only bet regularly in the summer. They are mostly casual fans and wait for this time of year to bet. I know so many guys that would just say, “ Oh, it’s just Belmont I’m not betting that. “ one of the reasons the brand of Saratoga does so well is how loyal these fans are. The other thing is of course employees and trainers are not happy. But the owners of the big barns and big horses still want a record at Saratoga. Winning here just makes the horse look better. People underestimate the power of the brand . I can remember when Saratoga had to compete. Right now, in horse racing , it is “The Brand”. Keeneland is probably next as far as actually attending the track itself .

[aaron]

Originally Posted by burnsy

I agree with some of that with exception of the brand value statement. A good portion of Saratoga support is local. I mean from here (Toga) to NYC and across to Boston, out to Buffalo and even Southern Canada. Most of these folks only bet regularly in the summer. They are mostly casual fans and wait for this time of year to bet. I know so many guys that would just say, “ Oh, it’s just Belmont I’m not betting that. “ one of the reasons the brand of Saratoga does so well is how loyal these fans are. The other thing is of course employees and trainers are not happy. But the owners of the big barns and big horses still want a record at Saratoga. Winning here just makes the horse look better. People underestimate the power of the brand . I can remember when Saratoga had to compete. Right now, in horse racing , it is “The Brand”. Keeneland is probably next as far as actually attending the track itself .

I would have to agree with what you have said. If you look at the actual racing,it is basically the same as Belmont with the exception of more stake races. The brand is definately worth something in terms of handle. How much more it would be compared to Saratoga at Belmont and Aqueduct is a question I can’t answer. Is it worth going there and the expense and health involved with the move ? I guess we will find out soon.

[groupie doll]

This is a remedial question, but will the Spa be shown via America's Day at the Races, similar to the BEL show on YouTube?

[westernmassbob]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

I have no idea how many horses will ship in from Belmont each race day. It should still be very successful.

A couple of months ago I heard privately that many trainers were against racing at Saratoga because the costs are so much higher, the track was going to be closed to fans, and there would be limitations on activities and work opportunities in town etc.. Now they are coming public.

That evolved into a discussion about the "brand" value of Saratoga generating more handle.

I think the evidence shows that people will bet whichever track is open and generally flock to higher quality racing. The Saratoga "brand" has a LOT to do with live attendance (but that will not happen this year). A lot of the rest of the handle has to do with the unique quality of Saratoga racing compared to a winter at AQU for example. So to attribute the difference in handle between AQU and SAR to "brand' misses the point that people would bet millions on the Travers if it was held at Fonner Park.

As I said from the start, the way better argument for Saratoga is the claim that the Belmont turf courses won't be able to handle the load and they'd have to move to AQU anyway. You can also throw in trying to help the Saratoga community because it is so closely tied to racing.

I'm hoping for a very successful meet even though a lot of trainers and owners were against going. Financially, the fact that alternatives for gambling dollars like casinos and sports betting are still very limited is a huge plus.

I was still looking for some type of explanation as to how Saratoga will maintain full fields if all these trainers have reduced stalls?