The Science is Conclusive

[hcap]

Originally Posted by davew

I should have been more specific for you. I was referring to a person not a 'study'. I am sorry you could not interpret my question. Does Dr Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, Director-General of the World Health Organization qualify as a 'medical professional'? and if so, why?

I said You are referring to olds recommendations by WHO.

The new:

Coronavirus: Wear mask in public, WHO's new advice
https://www.euronews.com/2020/06/06/...o-s-new-advice

The World Health Organization (WHO) on Friday broadened its recommendations for the use of masks during the coronavirus pandemic.

It is now advising that in areas where the virus is spreading people should wear fabric masks when social distancing is not possible, such as on public transport and in shops.

WHO Director-General Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus said people over age 60 or with underlying medical conditions also should wear masks in situations where social distancing cannot be maintained.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

I said You are referring to olds recommendations by WHO.

The new:

Coronavirus: Wear mask in public, WHO's new advice
https://www.euronews.com/2020/06/06/...o-s-new-advice

The World Health Organization (WHO) on Friday broadened its recommendations for the use of masks during the coronavirus pandemic.

It is now advising that in areas where the virus is spreading people should wear fabric masks when social distancing is not possible, such as on public transport and in shops.

WHO Director-General Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus said people over age 60 or with underlying medical conditions also should wear masks in situations where social distancing cannot be maintained.

They have all waffled: The "experts" aren't so sure of anything: Fauci, CDC, WHO, etc.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

Where is the proof of your "paper" in the Christian 7th day Adventist mag?

There is such a thing as expertise, and since none of us are experts in the details of epidemiology, one must know who the experts are. Contrary to your claim that scientists are pulling a fast one on you, the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (PNAS) is a pretty good source for expertise, a bit better than your ex physics professor cherry picking data in a non peer-reviewed publication.

From the CDC 3 days ago...



Masks are only one of the measures needed to slow community spread, particularly in epicenters, and perhaps the least of a burden.

All facial coverings interfere with air droplets exhaled, sneezed and emitted by the wearer, reducing transference from the infected to the uninfected to varying degrees.

As we know, N95 are superior, but any lowering the Ro number (the contagion number), reduces community spread. Each mitigation measure is only part of what is needed to accomplish part of the task of slowing the contagion. Lock downs being the most effective, but the most extreme. In lieu of a vaccine, any mitigation reducing the spread should be used and masks the one that produce only an inconvenience.
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Agasin, from the PNAS article, study was done in the environment of epicenters.. If you like, the closest study to n on the ground "field test"

https://www.pnas.org/content/117/26/14857#sec-2

We quantified the effects of face covering by projecting the number of infections based on the data prior to implementing the use of face masks in Italy on April 6 and NYC on April 17 (Fig. 2A; see Methods). Such projections are reasonable considering the excellent linear correlation for the data prior to the onset of mandated face covering (Fig. 2 B and C and SI Appendix, Fig. S1). Our analysis indicates that face covering reduced the number of infections by over 78,000 in Italy from April 6 to May 9 and by over 66,000 in NYC from April 17 to May 9. In addition, varying the correlation from 15 d to 30 d prior to the onset of the implementation reveals little difference in the projection for both places, because of the high correlation coefficients

Mr. Critical Thinker: Slowing does not = stopping the spread. I can drive to a destination at 40 mph or 60 mph or anywhere in between. The speed is not going to prevent me from finally getting to my destination. Only in a lunatic's world would slowing the spread so that the virus can linger for years be considered a successful strategy.


https://fee.org/articles/new-study-c...vid-19-spread/

There is actually an abundance of research that suggests masks are not an effective method of preventing the spread of respiratory viruses, which is no doubt why the World Health Organization and some other countries do not recommend wearing masks.

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-pers...sed-sound-data

Wearing stupid masks to stop extremely tiny viruses is like erecting a chain a link fence in a yard to keep out bugs.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by pandy

Good article on masks, with the science before the scientists decided to change it to fit the narrative. The only masks that do any good are N95, which no one in the public wears. The virus is 0.125 micrometers and goes through cloth masks.

Ironically, that is the exact same problem hcap has with his brain membrane...but things slip out!

[hcap]

Originally Posted by tucker6

New data was not uncovered. Mask technology and science hasn’t changed in decades. Pre epidemic, both the CDC and SG discussed the limitations of masks, but once they found out it was a visual representation of control of the public at large, the “science” changed. Masks are nearly useless. Social distance and wash your hands and don’t touch your face. Masks are 4th.

Although analysis of causal relationship of the "mesh size" of mask material is correct in preventing intake of an extremely small viral material in breathing IN, which is why N95 finer mesh masks are superior in preventing intake, that same casual factor is insufficient in explaining how coarser mesh sizes prevent the transmission of that minute viral material in breathing OUT.

From a physics and engineering point of view, masks prevent the infected wearing masks from spreading covid-19 to the uninfected by this mechanism,..

The filtering out minute viral material exhaled SUSPENDED in large quantities of much larger size moisture and fluid droplets


Consequently IMO, studies that do not make that distinction are flawed.

Rapid diffusion of water (evaporation) occurs from the fluid lining the surfaces of the airways (e.g., bronchi), the airspaces (e.g., alveoli), and mouth into the expiratory flow. Exhaled water vapor remains in the gas phase until it is cooled and captured as droplets in the condenser.

When you exhale when it's cold outside, the water vapor in your breath condenses into lots of tiny droplets of liquid water and ice (solid water) that you can see in the air as a cloud, similar to fog.

The dispersal of viral particles in those droplets happens after those water droplets atomize into a fine mist and the viral particles separate out from the fine droplets on the microscopic scaled. The percentage of coronavirus in our exhalation is much greater those droplets than only the dry gases we exhale.

So, even a coarser weave or mesh of a cloth facial cover is able to interfere and catch those larger water and fluid droplets if that material intercept our breath's moisture right at it's source, next to our nose and mouth, before the viral particles have a chance to atomize in dry air on that microscopic scale.

[hcap]

Evidence for Effectiveness of Cloth Face Coverings..Updated July 16, 2020
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...-guidance.html

Cloth face coverings are recommended as a simple barrier to help prevent respiratory droplets*** from traveling into the air and onto other people when the person wearing the cloth face covering coughs, sneezes, talks, or raises their voice. This is called source control. This recommendation is based on what we know about the role respiratory droplets*** play in the spread of the virus that causes COVID-19, paired with emerging evidence from clinical and laboratory studies that shows cloth face coverings reduce the spray of droplets when worn over the nose and mouth. COVID-19 spreads mainly among people who are in close contact with one another (within about 6 feet), so the use of cloth face coverings is particularly important in settings where people are close to each other or where social distancing is difficult to maintain.


For those suspicions of the motives and competency of "experts"

COVID-19: How much protection do face masks offer?
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-...k/art-20485449


Can face masks help slow the spread of the coronavirus (SARS-CoV-2) that causes COVID-19? Yes, face masks combined with other preventive measures, such as frequent hand-washing and social distancing, help slow the spread of the virus.

So why weren't face masks recommended at the start of the pandemic? At that time, experts didn't know the extent to which people with COVID-19 could spread the virus before symptoms appeared. Nor was it known that some people have COVID-19 but don't have any symptoms. Both groups can unknowingly spread the virus to others.

These discoveries led public health groups to do an about-face on face masks. The World Health Organization and the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) now include face masks in their recommendations for slowing the spread of the virus. The CDC recommends cloth face masks for the public and not the surgical and N95 masks needed by health care providers

***Respiratory infections can be transmitted through droplets of different sizes: when the droplet particles are >5-10 μm in diameter they are referred to as respiratory droplets, and when then are <5μm in diameter, they are referred to as droplet nuclei.

According to current evidence, COVID-19 virus is primarily transmitted between people through respiratory droplets

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

Evidence for Effectiveness of Cloth Face Coverings..Updated July 16, 2020
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...-guidance.html

Cloth face coverings are recommended as a simple barrier to help prevent respiratory droplets*** from traveling into the air and onto other people when the person wearing the cloth face covering coughs, sneezes, talks, or raises their voice. This is called source control. This recommendation is based on what we know about the role respiratory droplets*** play in the spread of the virus that causes COVID-19, paired with emerging evidence from clinical and laboratory studies that shows cloth face coverings reduce the spray of droplets when worn over the nose and mouth. COVID-19 spreads mainly among people who are in close contact with one another (within about 6 feet), so the use of cloth face coverings is particularly important in settings where people are close to each other or where social distancing is difficult to maintain.


For those suspicions of the motives and competency of "experts"

COVID-19: How much protection do face masks offer?
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-...k/art-20485449


Can face masks help slow the spread of the coronavirus (SARS-CoV-2) that causes COVID-19? Yes, face masks combined with other preventive measures, such as frequent hand-washing and social distancing, help slow the spread of the virus.

So why weren't face masks recommended at the start of the pandemic? At that time, experts didn't know the extent to which people with COVID-19 could spread the virus before symptoms appeared. Nor was it known that some people have COVID-19 but don't have any symptoms. Both groups can unknowingly spread the virus to others.

These discoveries led public health groups to do an about-face on face masks. The World Health Organization and the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) now include face masks in their recommendations for slowing the spread of the virus. The CDC recommends cloth face masks for the public and not the surgical and N95 masks needed by health care providers

***Respiratory infections can be transmitted through droplets of different sizes: when the droplet particles are >5-10 μm in diameter they are referred to as respiratory droplets, and when then are <5μm in diameter, they are referred to as droplet nuclei.

According to current evidence, COVID-19 virus is primarily transmitted between people through respiratory droplets

"Help slow", "help slow, "help slow". Again...slow doesn't equate to stop. Should we slow down the spread of the virus so that it takes 5 years to infect all the people it's going to infect and kill for that matter? How long do we want this virus to linger here in America?

[hcap]

Originally Posted by boxcar

"Help slow", "help slow, "help slow". Again...slow doesn't equate to stop. Should we slow down the spread of the virus so that it takes 5 years to infect all the people it's going to infect and kill for that matter? How long do we want this virus to linger here in America?

Please stop yammering and read about exponential growth of infectious diseases and what the R0 number means.

Any significant "slowing" is also magnified exponentially, and tremendously reduces how many contract the disease, suffer and die.

Did you know vaccines also "slow" infectious disease contagiion, and are usually between 40% and 60% effective, not a cure? Should we stop producing vaccines since they don't STOP infectious diseases outright?

If you break a bone, maybe you should avoid a cast since it does not cure the break right away?
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Exponential growth:

YouTube (Short URL)

[tucker6]

Originally Posted by hcap

Please stop yammering and read about exponential growth of infectious diseases and what the R0 number means.

Any significant "slowing" is also magnified exponentially, and tremendously reduces how many contract the disease, suffer and die.

Did you know vaccines also "slow" infectious disease contagiion, and are usually between 40% and 60% effective, not a cure? Should we stop producing vaccines since they don't STOP infectious diseases outright?

If you break a bone, maybe you should avoid a cast since it does not mend the break right away?

Why do you not care about slowing abortions?

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

Please stop yammering and read about exponential growth of infectious diseases and what the R0 number means.

Any significant "slowing" is also magnified exponentially, and tremendously reduces how many contract the disease, suffer and die.

Did you know vaccines also "slow" infectious disease contagiion, and are usually between 40% and 60% effective, not a cure? Should we stop producing vaccines since they don't STOP infectious diseases outright?

If you break a bone, maybe you should avoid a cast since it does not mend the break right away?
.................................................. ..................................
Exponential growth:

https://youtu.be/Kas0tIxDvrg

It all begs the question. It needs to be PROVED that masks significantly slow the spread. No such proof exists!

P.S. You're another whose sworn enemies are analogies! Putting a cast on a break speeds up the healing process.

[davew]

Originally Posted by boxcar

It all begs the question. It needs to be PROVED that masks significantly slow the spread. No such proof exists!

P.S. You're another whose sworn enemies are analogies! Putting a cast on a break speeds up the healing process.

He can't even answer my question ->Does Dr Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, Director-General of the World Health Organization qualify as a 'medical professional'? and if so, why?

I doubt if a scientific peer reviewed paper on masks for corona exist.

[hcap]

Originally Posted by davew

He can't even answer my question ->Does Dr Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, Director-General of the World Health Organization qualify as a 'medical professional'? and if so, why?

I doubt if a scientific peer reviewed paper on masks for corona exist.

I am not sure which one of you has the greater reading comprehensions disability.

I answered boxcar's question a number of times with the science and detailed facts, and you with the latest statement by WHO and it's Director.

Play among deluded bonkers selves.
Try not to make too much noise kiddies

[davew]

Originally Posted by hcap

I am not sure which one of you has the greater reading comprehensions disability.

I answered boxcar's question a number of times with the science and detailed facts, and you with the latest statement by WHO and it's Director.

Play among deluded bonkers selves.
Try not to make too much noise kiddies

is that a yes or a no to the 'medical professional'?

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

P.S. You're another whose sworn enemies are analogies! Putting a cast on a break speeds up the healing process.

No it does not. A cast merely immobilizes the broken limb so that it heals in the correct position. Ask an M.D.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by davew

I doubt if a scientific peer reviewed paper on masks for corona exist.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-...elps-heres-why

"a meta-analysis of 172 studies that looked at various interventions to prevent the transmission of COVID-19, SARS and MERS from an infected person to people close to them. The analysis, which was published in The Lancet on June 1, found that mask wearing significantly reduces the risk of viral transmission."