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05-13-2013, 09:51 PM
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#31
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Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 25,607
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by TJDave
Leaving the register open and unattended is stupid but that don't mean you can take the cash.
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Yeah, but if you take the cash and they have no proof you did, can you get in trouble? That's the 64 dollar question.
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05-13-2013, 10:17 PM
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#32
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Dead money
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 3,838
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The problem with stealing or cheating the casino they have the rewind button....and if it doesn't go in the casinos favor the tapes "get lost" or "the camera" wasn't on
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05-13-2013, 10:45 PM
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#33
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 14,568
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Wouldn't happen in Nevada
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Originally Posted by wiffleball whizz
The problem with stealing or cheating the casino they have the rewind button....and if it doesn't go in the casinos favor the tapes "get lost" or "the camera" wasn't on
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As someone who works in a casino surveillance department, I'd love to see the size of the fine our property would face from the NGCB if we tried to pull that one. #megabucks
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05-14-2013, 01:16 AM
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#34
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Dead money
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 3,838
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by horses4courses
As someone who works in a casino surveillance department, I'd love to see the size of the fine our property would face from the NGCB if we tried to pull that one. #megabucks
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It's a generalization.....can't tell u how many times there is a ruling or something happens on a game and the camera didn't see it.....
Or how many cameras aren't even on because a lack of manpower up in the room.....100 percent fact
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05-14-2013, 02:47 AM
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#35
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PA Steward
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Del Boca Vista
Posts: 88,536
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by wiffleball whizz
It's a generalization.....
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Oh, now it's a generalization.
Anyway, can't believe people are ignoring the really important parts of this story. That Ivey requested the dealer HOLD THE CARDS a certain way, differently than normal (don't have a clue how a dealer holds the cards in Punto Banco, some type of baccarat), AND TO USE THE SAME EXACT CARDS THE NEXT DAY!!! And apparently, the casino complied to both requests, remarkably.
How doesn't those two odd requests not raise SERIOUS alarms on the floor? And yet they continued to let him play...
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05-14-2013, 03:06 AM
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#36
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Dead money
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 3,838
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage
Oh, now it's a generalization.
Anyway, can't believe people are ignoring the really important parts of this story. That Ivey requested the dealer HOLD THE CARDS a certain way, differently than normal (don't have a clue how a dealer holds the cards in Punto Banco, some type of baccarat), AND TO USE THE SAME EXACT CARDS THE NEXT DAY!!! And apparently, the casino complied to both requests, remarkably.
How doesn't those two odd requests not raise SERIOUS alarms on the floor? And yet they continued to let him play...
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Casino employees are among the dumbest people on earth trust me....it's a line of work where no college degrees are needed to climb from dealer to vice president or director of a department...
I don't know how to put links on here pace but google how the golden nugget And taj got buried in baccarat because of this gem:
Baccarat game they put the cards in the machine then in the shoe burn the 6 of clubs then has to burn 6 more cards....
Now baccarat there are set procedures of what side player or bank stays or draws.....to make a long story short the cards were never shuffled and all in order....well the sharp Asians players saw notice this a few hands in and they start betting like the results were already in
The cards were literally coming out 3-4-5 clubs then 6-7-8 clubs etc etc etc....the dealer floor people and survaillence never noticed it....there were a ton of terminating the next day....the story leaked out a few months after it happened....google golden nugget and taj mahal baccarat casino losses or scam and read the articles....
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05-14-2013, 03:20 AM
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#37
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PA Steward
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Del Boca Vista
Posts: 88,536
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by wiffleball whizz
Casino employees are among the dumbest people on earth trust me....
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I smell another generalization disclaimer coming...
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05-14-2013, 03:38 AM
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#38
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Dead money
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 3,838
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage
I smell another generalization disclaimer coming...
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No disclaimer coming for this one I can promise you that......u have 1000s of me working at the casino....and on here we all know I'm not smart!!! 
But you were right with your post before,...once Ivey asked the dealers to hold the cards a certain way the bells have to start going off!!!!! Good call on that one pace!!!!! 
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05-14-2013, 10:14 AM
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#39
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tmrpots
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,285
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by thaskalos
The world's best poker player has an $11 million win withheld by a London casino.
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There is no such thing as "the world's best poker player."
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Originally Posted by thaskalos
Phil Ivey's casino gambling exploits are legendary; million dollar win/loss sessions are nothing new to him.
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True. However, he was gambling with his income from Full Tilt, which has been estimated at $1,000,000~ a month.
What he was doing was nothing more than degenerate gambling, which for some odd reason has received lauditory praise from otherwise astute observers.
But, there has been speculation that his "daring exploits" were nothing more than publicity stunts for Full Tilt Poker. The ploy was to simply try and play as close to break even as possible thus garnering lots of attention for the site of which he was part owner.
Either way, his current imbroglio will not end well. Casinos do not like it when they are taken advantage of.
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05-14-2013, 10:34 AM
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#40
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 14,568
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by wiffleball whizz
It's a generalization.....can't tell u how many times there is a ruling or something happens on a game and the camera didn't see it.....
Or how many cameras aren't even on because a lack of manpower up in the room.....100 percent fact
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Obviously, I can't speak for any other surveillance rooms other than those I've worked in. Every game on every table at all times has at least one dedicated camera on it. Each camera is recorded on a DVR, with the video stored for 30 days.
Should any video need to be saved from that game, we have that long to do so, and once it's downloaded it is saved for eternity.
No camera is ever switched off. They can malfunction, but are normally fixed quickly and, if that's not possible, another camera can be used in it's place.
Most of the times that you hear OBS claiming that there was no coverage of an incident on a certain game, you can put it down to "operator error". I won't dispute that casinos aren't staffed with a high percentage of rocket scientists. 
PA - your drawing attention to Ivey's request for special handling of the cards is indeed central to the plot. It is, also, very much a red flag as to whether he was cheating. Not knowing the game he was playing, I stayed away from making the point, but it's very likely he was doing it to gain his edge.
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05-14-2013, 12:54 PM
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#41
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tmrpots
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,285
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by horses4courses
Obviously, I can't speak for any other surveillance rooms other than those I've worked in. Every game on every table at all times has at least one dedicated camera on it. Each camera is recorded on a DVR, with the video stored for 30 days.
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This is also true in Las Vegas except for poker, in which case there may or (most likely, but not absolutely) may not be a camera on the game.
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05-14-2013, 01:01 PM
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#42
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Dead money
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 3,838
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by barn32
This is also true in Las Vegas except for poker, in which case there may or (most likely, but not absolutely) may not be a camera on the game.
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Exactly......not absolutely.....cameras in poker are as hit and miss as it gets...especially on weekends too many eyes needed for other parts of Casino
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05-14-2013, 01:09 PM
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#43
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 4,666
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by TJDave
Leaving the register open and unattended is stupid but that don't mean you can take the cash.
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I would more liken it to selling a real diamond marked at the price of a fake. Is it the buyer's fault that the seller didn't detect the difference?? Or purchased fakes to begin with??? Im sure there are legal precedents that address my analogy- which would make for an interesting court case.
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05-14-2013, 02:35 PM
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#44
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 10,989
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by mountainman
I would more liken it to selling a real diamond marked at the price of a fake.
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If the buyer knew then he would have an unfair advantage. Courts have ruled in favor of of sellers. It's called 'unconscionable action' or something like that.
__________________
All I needed in life I learned from Gary Larson.
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05-14-2013, 03:31 PM
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#45
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,357
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by TJDave
Leaving the register open and unattended is stupid but that don't mean you can take the cash.
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This is a pretty poor analogy to what Ivey did. Titanic Thompson had very good eyesight and could spot minute imperfections in a deck of cards. This is a lot more common than some would think. It is certainly not stealing. I imagine it would still be very hard to beat a card game this way.
__________________
There are more things in Heaven and Earth Horatio, than are dreamed of in your philosophy.
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