Phil Ivey denied $11 million win...

[lamboguy]

that guys works overtime dreaming up ways to get the house. he is the best ever at it. casino;s must spend millions every year to try to protect themselves from this gem of humanity. to give him some credit, i have never heard of him scoring off a degenerate gambler

[Dave Schwartz]

but if he was playing all night and bucking the odds in an improbable fashion on the Player vs. Bank (pays evens) then the casino has a strong case.

Why, just because he won?

I recall a crap game at the Golden Nugget in 1976 where the dice rolled for almost 2 hours. I know, because I took 2 turns on the stick on that game. It started at the end of my first turn, then my 2 turns on base, one turn on break, back on the stick and one more on the base when the hand ended. around 100-110 minutes. It was a quarter game (to start). At the end, the smallest player had almost $1000 in the rail - LOL - this guy couldn't win money if his life depended upon it.

Every roll of the dice after about 45 minutes took like 2-3 minutes paying off the hard ways and props. Biggest player had around $60k in the rail.

Small limit back then -$500 - but 5x odds. They advertised a $5k limit but you had to negotiate it ahead of time.

Two points I would make:

1. The joint was convinced they were being cheated.

2. People can get lucky. The casinos don't like that but it can happen.

Today, when a casino loses, apparently they sometimes just refuse to pay. "We must have been cheated" from the casino side sounds a lot like the players they used to laugh at.

[horses4courses]

Originally Posted by lamboguy

that guys works overtime dreaming up ways to get the house. he is the best ever at it. casino;s must spend millions every year to try to protect themselves from this gem of humanity. to give him some credit, i have never heard of him scoring off a degenerate gambler

It's been over 30 years since I read that book, but it was the celebrity status of Omar Sharif that Alex Bird was interested in. Of course, it didn't hurt that many people knew that Sharif was a terrible gambler. In the 1960/70s, there were few actors as famous around the world as Sharif. Bird figured, also, that he could have helped him lose a lot less money over time. Maybe even win.

[lamboguy]

Originally Posted by Dave Schwartz

Why, just because he won?

I recall a crap game at the Golden Nugget in 1976 where the dice rolled for almost 2 hours. I know, because I took 2 turns on the stick on that game. It started at the end of my first turn, then my 2 turns on base, one turn on break, back on the stick and one more on the base when the hand ended. around 100-110 minutes. It was a quarter game (to start). At the end, the smallest player had almost $1000 in the rail - LOL - this guy couldn't win money if his life depended upon it.

Every roll of the dice after about 45 minutes took like 2-3 minutes paying off the hard ways and props. Biggest player had around $60k in the rail.

Small limit back then -$500 - but 5x odds. They advertised a $5k limit but you had to negotiate it ahead of time.

Two points I would make:

1. The joint was convinced they were being cheated.

2. People can get lucky. The casinos don't like that but it can happen.

Today, when a casino loses, apparently they sometimes just refuse to pay. "We must have been cheated" from the casino side sounds a lot like the players they used to laugh at.

boy do i wish i was on that table

[maddog42]

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/the-tu...032520482.html

An article explaining how Ivey allegedly cheated. The late Titanic Thompson
was reputedly able to do this also. I don't think this is illegal.

[mountainman]

Pay up. You were outsmarted.

[PhantomOnTour]

Totally bogus - he won that money fair & square...
card up his sleeve? NO
dealer helping him out by manipulating the cards? NO
quick handed trickery at the table? NO

so he notices an anomaly in the card design and capitalizes on it...suppose I spot a track bias and make a few big scores...are the other bettors going to demand their money back because I "cheated" ?

[horses4courses]

If the cards were faulty, and Ivey was able take advantage of it, it's cheating.
There is not a gaming establishment anywhere that would tolerate this, and the bodies that govern most of them (i.e. Nevada Gaming Control) would side with the house in any such case.

Ivey has no chance in court.
If he wasn't the celebrity that he is, he might face prosecution himself.
Take your stake money and run, buddy......

[horses4courses]

Originally Posted by horses4courses

If the cards were faulty, and Ivey was able take advantage of it, it's cheating.
There is not a gaming establishment anywhere that would tolerate this, and the bodies that govern most of them (i.e. Nevada Gaming Control) would side with the house in any such case.

Ivey has no chance in court.
If he wasn't the celebrity that he is, he might face prosecution himself.
Take your stake money and run, buddy......

Let's put in another way, for all of you siding with the player.

How long do you think Phil Ivey would stick around in a holdem game where one, or more,
of his opponents recognized a pattern on the backs of the community cards?
Do you think he would feel cheated, and demand any losses back?

[Robert Fischer]

Ok, so the deck that house provided for gambling was flawed.

Ivey apparently took advantage of this.
I don't know whether Ivey should be allowed to profit from their mistake or not. I'm leaning toward "YES", but I haven't put a lot of serious thought in.
I am sure the 'rules' say that he is not.

The bigger questions are not about that ruling(unless you are Ivey), but are in regard to the deck that the house provided being flawed.
HUGE can of worms opened

[wiffleball whizz]

Is this baccarat? The cards are in a shoe with a cover on it.....there is no skill in baccarat there are set standards on certain draws is this article a publicity stunt? Phil wasn't cheating

Phil bets 5k a box on dice And is a loose cannon...

I grew up around Phil used to play 3/6 holdem at trop and taj in ac was good back then....he graduated the same high school as me edison nj and played in a lot of clubs in perth amboy nj

Fun fact: in my opinion 2 best players in world are Phil Ivey and Tom durrrrrr dwan....both graduated from Edison nj 2 high schools Edison high school and John p Stevens high school

Phil don't have to cheat games to win he will bury any game he is in he has the heart of a lion

[TJDave]

Originally Posted by Robert Fischer

Ivey apparently took advantage of this.
I don't know whether Ivey should be allowed to profit from their mistake or not. I'm leaning toward "YES", but I haven't put a lot of serious thought in.

Leaving the register open and unattended is stupid but that don't mean you can take the cash.

[Robert Fischer]

Originally Posted by TJDave

Leaving the register open and unattended is stupid but that don't mean you can take the cash.

well said.



I think the fact that the deck was flawed brings up bigger questions.

Was it 1 flawed deck in that 1 casino that a top world player Ivey just happened to LUCK into? , and immediately noticed?

I don't know cards very well, but I thought they shuffled together a few decks and used new decks every so often.... I'm not sure.

Was every deck flawed??

Is it possible the casino has known about this and been exploiting it??

Did Ivey notice it, or was he tipped off by a casino insider??

If every deck was flawed was this something the manufacturer was involved in??

[horses4courses]

Originally Posted by Robert Fischer

well said.



I think the fact that the deck was flawed brings up bigger questions.

Was it 1 flawed deck in that 1 casino that a top world player Ivey just happened to LUCK into? , and immediately noticed?

I don't know cards very well, but I thought they shuffled together a few decks and used new decks every so often.... I'm not sure.

Was every deck flawed??

Is it possible the casino has known about this and been exploiting it??

Did Ivey notice it, or was he tipped off by a casino insider??

If every deck was flawed was this something the manufacturer was involved in??

It's likely to result from manafacturer error, and that many decks are flawed. Someone may have been sharp enough to pick up on it, or it's possible that an employee, or former employee, of the card company is on the take.
This wouldn't be the first time this situation has arisen, and the casino will always cry foul.

[Stillriledup]

Originally Posted by horses4courses

If the cards were faulty, and Ivey was able take advantage of it, it's cheating.
There is not a gaming establishment anywhere that would tolerate this, and the bodies that govern most of them (i.e. Nevada Gaming Control) would side with the house in any such case.

Ivey has no chance in court.
If he wasn't the celebrity that he is, he might face prosecution himself.
Take your stake money and run, buddy......

You mean he has no chance to lose in court. That's what you meant, right?