Oaklawn's Show Bet Bonus

[AndyC]

Originally Posted by AltonKelsey

Im just guessing as to the actual method , but simplest way would be to recalculate all the on track winners as if the take was 10%.

So if only 1 $2 ticket was sold, that ticket gets paid at the higher rate, and all other tickets get the normal payout.

Basically, they are refunding part of the takeout, not hard to understand.

I am not saying it is hard to understand, just want to know the actual rules.
If you are going to bet real money wouldn't it be a good idea to know the rules?

[green80]

Originally Posted by AndyC

I am not saying it is hard to understand, just want to know the actual rules.
If you are going to bet real money wouldn't it be a good idea to know the rules?

There is 1 pool and the show prices are figured same as always. Then they take the on track show wagers and re-figure prices with the reduced take and post those on track. Thats why the prices stay close but a .20,.40,.60 etc gain depending on the price of the horse. If they used a separate pool the show prices could vary wildly, maybe pay less on track even with the reduced take.

[AndyC]

Originally Posted by green80

There is 1 pool and the show prices are figured same as always. Then they take the on track show wagers and re-figure prices with the reduced take and post those on track. Thats why the prices stay close but a .20,.40,.60 etc gain depending on the price of the horse. If they used a separate pool the show prices could vary wildly, maybe pay less on track even with the reduced take.

Re-figure prices using reduced take on entire pool or just the reduced take on the amount bet ontrack?

[green80]

reduced take on just the bets placed on track. That's why the on track payouts are higher on show bets. Of course you would have to refigure the entire pool and then only pay the higher prices to the bets made on track.

[AndyC]

Originally Posted by green80

reduced take on just the bets placed on track. That's why the on track payouts are higher on show bets. Of course you would have to refigure the entire pool and then only pay the higher prices to the bets made on track.

The way show bet prices are determined is usually as follows:

Total Pool (TP) minus Take Out (TO) minus winning tickets (WT)=show bet winnings. The show bet winnings are then allocated giving 1/3 to each winning spot.

My question is simply, Is TO computed by using 10% for the entire pool to determine ontrack payoffs or is it a blend of both the ontrack and offtrack takeout?

A 3rd way to compute a payoff is to use the full takeout percentage and payback the ontrack winners with a bonus equal to 7% of the ontrack betting. So if the ontrack betting was $30,000 the normal takeout would have been $5,100 (17%) and the ontrack special takeout would have been $3,000 leaving a bonus of $2,100 to be paid to ontrack winners.

[green80]

Originally Posted by AndyC

The way show bet prices are determined is usually as follows:

Total Pool (TP) minus Take Out (TO) minus winning tickets (WT)=show bet winnings. The show bet winnings are then allocated giving 1/3 to each winning spot.

My question is simply, Is TO computed by using 10% for the entire pool to determine ontrack payoffs or is it a blend of both the ontrack and offtrack takeout?

A 3rd way to compute a payoff is to use the full takeout percentage and payback the ontrack winners with a bonus equal to 7% of the ontrack betting. So if the ontrack betting was $30,000 the normal takeout would have been $5,100 (17%) and the ontrack special takeout would have been $3,000 leaving a bonus of $2,100 to be paid to ontrack winners.

3

The problem with the 3rd way is that this "bonus" is not paid equally or as a percentage to all on track show ticket holders. Some get .20, some .60, some a couple of dollars, depending on how long their horse is in the show pool.

[ultracapper]

Originally Posted by green80

3

The problem with the 3rd way is that this "bonus" is not paid equally or as a percentage to all on track show ticket holders. Some get .20, some .60, some a couple of dollars, depending on how long their horse is in the show pool.

It is paid equally. The "bonus" for each $2 on track ticket would depend on the ratio of 1/3 of the total bonus to the number of $2 on track tickets on each horse that came in the money. The 1/3 of the total amount of bonus money would be paid to each of the win/place/show finishers, but if there is less bet on one of those horses in the show pool than on the others, the "per $2" bonus will be higher for that horse. Works exactly the same as the regular show pool. The less bet on a winning horse, the more the $2 return will be. The less bet on a horse, the more the per $2 bonus will be.

[green80]

Well that would work then. The math can't be too complicated if they can do it in Arkansas.

The only problem is that I can't hit a high enough percentage of show horses at OP to make a profit, even with the good show prices.

[Tom]

Operative words here being on track.
Just a snub to most of their customer who bet off track.

They have not given me any incentive at all to even look at them.
Most days, I don't bother.

[Afleet]

Originally Posted by Tom

Operative words here being on track.
Just a snub to most of their customer who bet off track.

They have not given me any incentive at all to even look at them.
Most days, I don't bother.

OP has the 2nd lowest tri/super takeout (21%) after KY downs and 2nd largest average field size after KY Downs.

Gulfstream tri and super takeout 26%-thats criminal. AQU tri takeout 24%

what more incentive do you need than that?

[Afleet]

Originally Posted by Tom

Operative words here being on track.
Just a snub to most of their customer who bet off track.

They have not given me any incentive at all to even look at them.
Most days, I don't bother.

Maybe its not a snub but a reward for those who go to the track

[AndyC]

Originally Posted by Afleet

Maybe its not a snub but a reward for those who go to the track

Given that track attendance went down in 2017, how good of a promotion is it? What is the need to reward people who are probably going to be at the track in any event?

[Afleet]

Originally Posted by AndyC

Given that track attendance went down in 2017, how good of a promotion is it? What is the need to reward people who are probably going to be at the track in any event?

Handle in that pool went up. Wouldn't all parties involved benefit from attendance going up-why not do something to encourage it? I don't think you are going to get new fans/bettors taking them to the OTB or hanging out at grandpa's house watching TVG. You don't get the sounds and the excitement. OP had a good crowd on Saturday with actual excitement and cheering from the crowd, ghost town on Sunday though.

[VigorsTheGrey]

Originally Posted by Afleet

Handle in that pool went up. Wouldn't all parties involved benefit from attendance going up-why not do something to encourage it? I don't think you are going to get new fans/bettors taking them to the OTB or hanging out at grandpa's house watching TVG. You don't get the sounds and the excitement. OP had a good crowd on Saturday with actual excitement and cheering from the crowd, ghost town on Sunday though.

I've only been following Oaklawn for 2 years now..but I already love it...There are some real racing personalities there..like Gary Stevens said recently regarding moving his tack there,

"The obvious question: Why would a riding great, synonymous with Santa Anita, Del Mar and the now-defunct Hollywood Park, move his family approximately 1,600 miles less than two months before his 55th birthday?

“Like I’ve told multiple people in interviews, some pretty basic things – quality horses, quality horsemen, quality money, quality management and quality living,” Stevens said. “Pretty simple math.”

But Oaklawn is definitely an insiders scene...I've read several times that locals both love and support the racing there...so I really can see why the track has this on-site show bonus going...great PR for the local on-trackers and it only adds to a general feeling of cohesiveness there...

There will be several medium priced longshots winning there but also I noticed from last year LOTS of very well fancied runners from great local connections winning...seems like when a stable runs a good horse, word must get around pretty quick so don't be shy of those 2-1 to 4-1 shots that are getting action...I know it looks tempting to use longer prices with those big fields, but really watch the tote and the warm ups and pay attention to the on-site rumor mill (which most of us off-worlders are not privy to, unfortunately)...so yeah it might be kind of tough to get enough good show prices to make it worthwhile, even with the bonus.

[Afleet]

Originally Posted by VigorsTheGrey

I've only been following Oaklawn for 2 years now..but I already love it...There are some real racing personalities there..like Gary Stevens said recently regarding moving his tack there,

"The obvious question: Why would a riding great, synonymous with Santa Anita, Del Mar and the now-defunct Hollywood Park, move his family approximately 1,600 miles less than two months before his 55th birthday?

“Like I’ve told multiple people in interviews, some pretty basic things – quality horses, quality horsemen, quality money, quality management and quality living,” Stevens said. “Pretty simple math.”

But Oaklawn is definitely an insiders scene...I've read several times that locals both love and support the racing there...so I really can see why the track has this on-site show bonus going...great PR for the local on-trackers and it only adds to a general feeling of cohesiveness there...

There will be several medium priced longshots winning there but also I noticed from last year LOTS of very well fancied runners from great local connections winning...seems like when a stable runs a good horse, word must get around pretty quick so don't be shy of those 2-1 to 4-1 shots that are getting action...I know it looks tempting to use longer prices with those big fields, but really watch the tote and the warm ups and pay attention to the on-site rumor mill (which most of us off-worlders are not privy to, unfortunately)...so yeah it might be kind of tough to get enough good show prices to make it worthwhile, even with the bonus.

you must have heard some of the stories I heard in the bar across the street from the track. A partner in some Brad Cox trained horses and this other guy told me that the character in Let it Ride (teller Robbie Coaltraine was based on a teller at OP). It was a good time, glad I went.

People drinking, gambling, and telling lies-doesn't get much better than that!