Is the TOC preparing to stick it to horseplayers again?

[OTM Al]

Originally Posted by Stillriledup

They don't need to consult customers, but they do need to "do the math" as there is plenty of evidence that lower takeout begets higher handle.

Except from their perspective takeout is exactly the same as before except on one bet where the takeout is lower than last year, this shouldn't they have higher handle?

[AndyC]

Originally Posted by Stillriledup

They don't need to consult customers, but they do need to "do the math" as there is plenty of evidence that lower takeout begets higher handle.

Clearly, the people who need to do the math are the players! I don't think for a minute that players have some sort of intellectual superiority when it comes to business decisions.

[whodoyoulike]

Originally Posted by Jeff P

Oddly enough, on p4 of the CHRB Annual Report for Fiscal Year 2011, CHRB Chairman Keith Brackpool blamed THE ECONOMY as the reason handle fell off a cliff:
http://www.chrb.ca.gov/annual_report...ual_report.pdf

Brackpool went on to cite SB1072, the bill that brought 22.68% exacta takeout to California's major thoroughbred tracks, as a good thing. ...

So I have to ask the obvious:

If, as cited by the CHRB Chairman in the CHRB 2011 Annual Report, the economy was responsible for California racing's fall-off in handle, how in the world did the California Lottery generate an uptick in sales and total revenue flowing to education during the same fiscal time period?



-jp

.

Is he this Keith Brackpool, who is now in charge of Stronach's West Coast operations? I think I read, he is President of SA race track.

http://www.drf.com/news/brackpool-re...stronach-group

Something doesn't seem right about this situation. I think the CHRB should report to the CA State AG to make sure they comply with their fiduciary duties. And, they should SPELL OUT what exactly is their fiduciary duty.

Oh, I forgot. I'm pissed off.

[whodoyoulike]

Originally Posted by AndyC

Are there really a lot of businesses that consult their customers when raising prices? What customer would actually respond and say " ya know, raising prices on me sounds like a good idea"?

I don't know which part of the country you reside but, if Target raises their prices one or more businesses will maintain or lower theirs (I'd bet on it). It's called competition in the market place. Race tracks are the only businesses I can think of where one raises prices and the reaction of another is to match or increase it more.

There's something wrong here, I wish I was smart enough to figure it out.

In other words, businesses don't really have to say to their customers "would you like me to raise the cost to you" because we had a bad month?

[AndyC]

Originally Posted by whodoyoulike

I don't know which part of the country you reside but, if Target raises their prices one or more businesses will maintain or lower theirs (I'd bet on it). It's called competition in the market place. Race tracks are the only businesses I can think of where one raises prices and the reaction of another is to match or increase it more.

There's something wrong here, I wish I was smart enough to figure it out.

In other words, businesses don't really have to say to their customers "would you like me to raise the cost to you" because we had a bad month?

Your first mistake is thinking that a racetrack is like other businesses able to respond to changes in the marketplace at the drop of a hat. They can proceed with good ideas and good intentions but have to go through the gauntlet of regulatory and other organizational approval. And that never seems to produce good results.

[whodoyoulike]

Originally Posted by AndyC

Your first mistake is thinking that a racetrack is like other businesses able to respond to changes in the marketplace at the drop of a hat. They can proceed with good ideas and good intentions but have to go through the gauntlet of regulatory and other organizational approval. And that never seems to produce good results.

I think I see what you're saying. But, there are plenty of other businesses reviewed by a regulatory agency and they're competitive e.g., airlines, telephone, gas and electric etc. A recent example is the T-Mobile campaign of taking over your service contract if you switch to them. My cell phone provider called me up and upon their review based on my usage they will lower my monthly bill if I'll agree to change plans which also allowed additional reductions.

I've always believed in the free market environment. Competition is always good e.g., cell phones if there wasn't any competition we would still be carrying around 5 lb. phones which we would keep in our cars when we go out.

Maybe the race tracks should try an develop other revenue streams to grow their business instead of ... I'd go for the 1/4 $billion spent on the first Friday and Saturday in May. If someone was to successfully do that, the CDI racetracks would be a footnote. A business who initiated their own demise in racing. And, I think they need racing. Racing doesn't need them.
They tout tradition (it's BS, they're not serious).

[AndyC]

Originally Posted by whodoyoulike

I think I see what you're saying. But, there are plenty of other businesses reviewed by a regulatory agency and they're competitive e.g., airlines, telephone, gas and electric etc. A recent example is the T-Mobile campaign of taking over your service contract if you switch to them. My cell phone provider called me up and upon their review based on my usage they will lower my monthly bill if I'll agree to change plans which also allowed additional reductions.

I've always believed in the free market environment. Competition is always good e.g., cell phones if there wasn't any competition we would still be carrying around 5 lb. phones which we would keep in our cars when we go out.

Maybe the race tracks should try an develop other revenue streams to grow their business instead of ... I'd go for the 1/4 $billion spent on the first Friday and Saturday in May. If someone was to successfully do that, the CDI racetracks would be a footnote. A business who initiated their own demise in racing. And, I think they need racing. Racing doesn't need them.
They tout tradition (it's BS, they're not serious).

An airline doesn't need approval to drop its ticket prices. A track in CA needs the approval of the TOC and the CHRB and that doesn't happen with just a phone call.

[Jeff P]

Link to a Youtube video that landed in my email inbox over the weekend:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyEy10S6MFM


-jp

.

[Stillriledup]

Originally Posted by Jeff P

Link to a Youtube video that landed in my email inbox over the weekend:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyEy10S6MFM


-jp

.

I want my Todd Pletcher Jersey strange betting lady!!

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by AndyC

An airline doesn't need approval to drop its ticket prices. A track in CA needs the approval of the TOC and the CHRB and that doesn't happen with just a phone call.

I used to think that too. And then I witnessed the recent NYRA takeout overcharging "mistake"...after which, CEO Charles Hayward was quick to announce an even deeper takeout reduction than previously advertised...without any lengthy negotiations with the horsemen groups.

Am I wrong?

[OTM Al]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

I used to think that too. And then I witnessed the recent NYRA takeout overcharging "mistake"...after which, CEO Charles Hayward was quick to announce an even deeper takeout reduction than previously advertised...without any lengthy negotiations with the horsemen groups.

Am I wrong?

Do you wonder if the ones that really made the "mistake" were the ones that changed this? Still waiting for the final report on what really happened. Horseman's groups don't have quite as much say under NY laws as they seem to have in other places as well. They are just another lobby for the most part.

[takeout]

Originally Posted by Jeff P

Link to a Youtube video that landed in my email inbox over the weekend:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyEy10S6MFM
-jp

That so nails it!
The first two comments after, really nail it, too!

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by DeanT

You mean the same people that say gambling is recession proof?

Slots revenue at racetracks in North America went up from 2008-2012.

Hong Kong, in a recession, had horse racing handles go from $7.8B US in 2008 to this year's record $13.3B

Australia had, over the same period, handle set record after record, to $13B last year.

The economy has always been a convenient, yet inaccurate excuse.

Why is handle ticking up then as the economy regroups? Shouldn't handle continue to decrease as these high takeouts remain in effect? Or level off at best?

Slot revenue going up from 2008-2012...does this distinguish between slot parlors that have been in existence vs. brand new ones? Aqueduct's opening in 2011 certainly padded those stats, did it not?

[AndyC]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

I used to think that too. And then I witnessed the recent NYRA takeout overcharging "mistake"...after which, CEO Charles Hayward was quick to announce an even deeper takeout reduction than previously advertised...without any lengthy negotiations with the horsemen groups.

Am I wrong?

I was referring primarily to California where nothing gets done without the approval of the TOC.

[whodoyoulike]

Originally Posted by AndyC

I was referring primarily to California where nothing gets done without the approval of the TOC.

After the last CA takeout raise and boycott, I was doing some research and your independent opinion seems to verify my conclusion. I recall there was an effort to establish another more friendlier owner's group. I think it was being proposed by that big car dealer (horse owner) and a couple of prominent owner/trainers. Do you know what happened to that effort?

Apparently, it must have fizzled out.

Why does the TOC have so much influence over or with the CHRB? Harris was once the chair and Moss was(is) a long time member. Billion$ are wagered and spent by the betting public every year. There should be no questions of integrity or complying with fiduciary duties in operating this thing we call horse racing.

I did read parts of the Horse Racing Act of 1978, was this the intent because people can always submit amendments to correct unintentional results? That's their job.