NHC/NTRA 2022

[v j stauffer]

Originally Posted by metro

I can understand a points tourney but live money would think the logic would be different. Why throw good money after bad?

The only reason to play a cash tourney is pursuit of prize money and qualifying for other tournaments.

IMO the bankroll should be used as though they are chips. Not unlike a poker tournament.

The entry fee in the BCBC is $10,000 but the starting bankroll $7500. Win $2500 and you're even.

IMO a player must be extremely aggressive in these formats.

Not a venue to eek out a profit.

Just one man's opinion.

It's served me well.

[davew]

Originally Posted by geroge.burns99

LOL...Does that get you back home?

it does buy a beer

[Si2see]

Originally Posted by v j stauffer

Good tournament players finish DEAD LAST all the time. There's no reason to finish in the middle of the pack.

Most of the tournaments I play I end up with either ZERO points accrued or $0 dollars in my account.

I don't agree with that take.

One of my early contest mentors Edward “Joe” Ramsay taught me this. He said you want to be first or last ( obviously first !! ) because either of those mean you are finding horses other people aren’t. To this day I am ok if I am at the bottom because I am also often times at the top.

The thing that kills me still is running 3rd and 4th with prices , which happened this NHC. I felt so good about Friday day 1 but knew if I had a bad day it was over. Ultimately I passed on two winners because they were bet way below their ml , then my best bet of the day scratched at 8-1, I was forced to play a few races that I didn’t have originally.

Ultimately I should not have “given up” going into Saturday , being that the 7th place finisher had $20 less than my score after day 1.. BUT I decided to play all cap horses or as close as possible with the idea that IF I hit one I would then really start playing best bets. Meanwhile I bought into horse tourneys with my actual top picks. Luckily I did , nhc day two was a bust but I won the $3500 keeneland entry Saturday.

Also I was thrilled to win the first Apple Watch door prize on Thursday , but that was good karma , my dad needed a new riding mower so I actually thought I was entering the Sunday grand prize raffle for him.

All in all fun trip, ready to go back next year for a better showing.. in the meantime along with keeneland entry I have won partial 5k bcbc entry so I am going to try to finish that out also.

Jason

[ReplayRandall]

Quiet as a church mouse on twitter.... Maybe he has a case of "convenient" Covid.

[Andy Asaro]

Originally Posted by Si2see

One of my early contest mentors Edward “Joe” Ramsay taught me this. He said you want to be first or last ( obviously first !! ) because either of those mean you are finding horses other people aren’t. To this day I am ok if I am at the bottom because I am also often times at the top.

The thing that kills me still is running 3rd and 4th with prices , which happened this NHC. I felt so good about Friday day 1 but knew if I had a bad day it was over. Ultimately I passed on two winners because they were bet way below their ml , then my best bet of the day scratched at 8-1, I was forced to play a few races that I didn’t have originally.

Ultimately I should not have “given up” going into Saturday , being that the 7th place finisher had $20 less than my score after day 1.. BUT I decided to play all cap horses or as close as possible with the idea that IF I hit one I would then really start playing best bets. Meanwhile I bought into horse tourneys with my actual top picks. Luckily I did , nhc day two was a bust but I won the $3500 keeneland entry Saturday.

Also I was thrilled to win the first Apple Watch door prize on Thursday , but that was good karma , my dad needed a new riding mower so I actually thought I was entering the Sunday grand prize raffle for him.

All in all fun trip, ready to go back next year for a better showing.. in the meantime along with keeneland entry I have won partial 5k bcbc entry so I am going to try to finish that out also.

Jason

I came close to not going over the document we had to sign. I don't have any problem signing onto rules. But, I do have a problem with the NTRA limiting the liability of the hotel above and beyond the normal liability that goes with being a guest at the hotel. NTRA is supposed to be an advocate for it's members and not an advocate for the hotel. I was in the insurance business for many years and I know that given time anything and everything could and will happen. Hate to see something happen, anywhere from something dropping from the ceiling to an employee going nuts causing anyone severe injury or harm and not being able to sue. I may stop participating in the NHC if they don't change the wording. Opinion?

[Si2see]

Originally Posted by Andy Asaro

I came close to not going over the document we had to sign. I don't have any problem signing onto rules. But, I do have a problem with the NTRA limiting the liability of the hotel above and beyond the normal liability that goes with being a guest at the hotel. NTRA is supposed to be an advocate for it's members and not an advocate for the hotel. I was in the insurance business for many years and I know that given time anything and everything could and will happen. Hate to see something happen, anywhere from something dropping from the ceiling to an employee going nuts causing anyone severe injury or harm and not being able to sue. I may stop participating in the NHC if they don't change the wording. Opinion?

Andy,

To be honest I read the rules for tournaments so far in advance I didn’t even notice they slipped that last page in there when signing.

That is why I find it hard to believe any player that says they were unaware of the rules for the tournament itself , and I really haven’t commented anywhere in the dq of a player because frankly the player should have been dq and that is that….. but if anyone remembers the same player was disqualified from a tournament in the past for not reading the rules and playing the proper minimum mandatory bets ( if memory serves me correct ) so I also don’t doubt they just show up and play, since it doesn’t seem to be about the money for them, likely due to having backers as everyone says….

I am excited about the Keeneland contest in April. As Vic already pointed out ( and is 100% correct ) you have to be willing to take big swings to have any chance at winning a cash tournament like that… I would not buy into a contest for day $3500 just to throw all the chips in the middle of the table if I didn’t love a longshot or two, or feel like I have a great couple of races in a row ( being that I am multi race player and will rely on doubles mostly ) …. BUT when I win in for the money to me it is the same as mythical tournament because as far as I am concerned I have $207 in it being that I won the first time trying for this one, so coming home with a brinks truck or zero is fine with me.

Jason

[Andy Asaro]

Originally Posted by Si2see

Andy,

To be honest I read the rules for tournaments so far in advance I didn’t even notice they slipped that last page in there when signing.

That is why I find it hard to believe any player that says they were unaware of the rules for the tournament itself , and I really haven’t commented anywhere in the dq of a player because frankly the player should have been dq and that is that….. but if anyone remembers the same player was disqualified from a tournament in the past for not reading the rules and playing the proper minimum mandatory bets ( if memory serves me correct ) so I also don’t doubt they just show up and play, since it doesn’t seem to be about the money for them, likely due to having backers as everyone says….

I am excited about the Keeneland contest in April. As Vic already pointed out ( and is 100% correct ) you have to be willing to take big swings to have any chance at winning a cash tournament like that… I would not buy into a contest for day $3500 just to throw all the chips in the middle of the table if I didn’t love a longshot or two, or feel like I have a great couple of races in a row ( being that I am multi race player and will rely on doubles mostly ) …. BUT when I win in for the money to me it is the same as mythical tournament because as far as I am concerned I have $207 in it being that I won the first time trying for this one, so coming home with a brinks truck or zero is fine with me.

Jason

[metro]

Originally Posted by v j stauffer

The only reason to play a cash tourney is pursuit of prize money and qualifying for other tournaments.

IMO the bankroll should be used as though they are chips. Not unlike a poker tournament.

The entry fee in the BCBC is $10,000 but the starting bankroll $7500. Win $2500 and you're even.

IMO a player must be extremely aggressive in these formats.

Not a venue to eek out a profit.

Just one man's opinion.

It's served me well.

I can understand being aggressive and centering your tourney chances around some specific plays, but if you're in the BCBC, down to say $1000, all your key plays have come and gone and you're hopelessly out of the prize money, why go all in on a horse or combination that you would never play otherwise?

[v j stauffer]

Originally Posted by metro

I can understand being aggressive and centering your tourney chances around some specific plays, but if you're in the BCBC, down to say $1000, all your key plays have come and gone and you're hopelessly out of the prize money, why go all in on a horse or combination that you would never play otherwise?

At Del Mar this summer I had $1000 going into the last race. I made a $100 ex box 5-6-10 (not positive those are the exact numbers) and bet $400 win on #10. #10 won at 24-1 #6 was 2nd at 22-1. The exacta paid $458 for a dollar. The total cash was $55,000. I won the tournament by $30,000.

I NEVER felt I was hopelessly out of the money.

I would have made that same play no matter my bankroll, just for more.

$1000 is ALOT of money and MUCH can be done with it.

Chip and a Chair!

This was not posted to gloat.

I just strongly believe in the tournament strategy I employ.

[metro]

Originally Posted by v j stauffer

At Del Mar this summer I had $1000 going into the last race. I made a $100 ex box 5-6-10 (not positive those are the exact numbers) and bet $400 win on #10. #10 won at 24-1 #6 was 2nd at 22-1. The exacta paid $458 for a dollar. The total cash was $55,000. I won the tournament by $30,000.

I NEVER felt I was hopelessly out of the money.

I would have made that same play no matter my bankroll, just for more.

$1000 is ALOT of money and MUCH can be done with it.

Chip and a Chair!

This was not posted to gloat.

I just strongly believe in the tournament strategy I employ.

Well, I couldn't have set that up any better for you, even the dollar amount!

Glad it worked out for you and assume that was Astronaut who you hit on.

[v j stauffer]

Originally Posted by metro

Well, I couldn't have set that up any better for you, even the dollar amount!

Glad it worked out for you and assume that was Astronaut who you hit on.

It was. Could have really made a HUGE score. After the 6th my bankroll was $11,000 which I cleverly donked down to $1000 in the next three races.

The play would have been structured the same. Just for MUCH larger denominations.

Oh well.

C'est La Vie

[cato]

I was in BCBC a few years ago - terrible experience in that my picks were running backwards and I was down to about 1500 with three races left. I wisely said to myself. "Self" lets bet it all on this low odds horse - maybe like 3-1 and then take that win and bet it all on The Walking Goose (whatever) in the last race. The Fave won and then the longer shot that I selected in the last race won. But I was semi new to cash games and just could not pull the trigger, so my bets were a trifling amount. Yet, I was kind of gloating because I cleared a couple of thousand dollars.

BUT the guy who won the BCBC, something like $200,000 prize money + the $50,000 cash or so was pretty much exactly where I was with three races left, except he knew how to play cash games and had the balls to make both bets.

you are rarely completely out of it in a cash tournament

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by ReplayRandall

And that's all you should have said....

dick much?

[ReplayRandall]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

dick much?

You're the Undisputed Champ....I tip my cap to you.

[PaceAdvantage]

Everything I post is an instinctual gut reaction honed over decades of experience at this craft.

Don't take it lightly.