When is it going to stop?

[clicknow]

Originally Posted by Robert Fischer

It's more like asking when children will stop dying in auto accidents.

Perhaps you haven't looked into the history of just how much progress has been made, in general, with vehicular accidents in the last 30 years?

This includes awareness programs like checking the wheel wells on the truck in your driveway, before taking it out of park, to make sure your 3 year old isn't hiding up and under one of them, which happens.

Are you saying that we shouldn't be asking when children will stop dying in auto accidents? Because ASKING that question is of utter significance to even begin adressing the problem-----and thankfully, there are people asking, and doing the work to figure out the answers. Preventable deaths. PREVENTABLE. Many are.

[clicknow]

Originally Posted by horsefan2019

You can limit medication and the horses would still break down

Please list the racing jurisdictions who have adopted, in full, the National Uniform Medication Program as provided by the Association of Racing Commissioners International.

"limit medication" is a nebulous term until you define what that is, so the use of the phrase otherwise, without clear numbers, is haphazard.

[Robert Fischer]

Originally Posted by clicknow

Perhaps you haven't looked into the history of just how much progress has been made, in general, with vehicular accidents in the last 30 years?

This includes awareness programs like checking the wheel wells on the truck in your driveway, before taking it out of park, to make sure your 3 year old isn't hiding up and under one of them, which happens.

That's reassuring. When is it going to stop?

[clicknow]

Originally Posted by Robert Fischer

That's reassuring. When is it going to stop?

Again, if you keep trying to move the conversation to "deaths" instead of "preventable deaths", then we make no progress in the conversation.

Zero deaths will never happen, on the road, in your house, or on the track----human or animal. It's a lofty goal, but will never happen.

That is not what I am proposing, and you know this very well.

You cannot argue with the fact that MANY deaths, human and animal, are indeed, preventable. That doesn't mean they won't happen, it means we can reduce them markedly though.


What the public is seeing, is what many passionate racing fans are seeing: a lack of uniform strategic plans and policies to address race horse safety by track owners and racing commissions, and a lack of task forces to put all the pieces of the puzzle together ( all the pieces, medication rules, musculoskeletal and cardiovascular issues, race track configurations, blah blahblah)----because we have to keep trying. For the longevity of the sport, and for the horses themselves.

WHEN you are showing you are dilligently TRYING to put all the pieces of the puzzle together, then people tend to be less judgemental because you have written out, for all to see, your goals and what you intend to do toward carrying them out.

Again, show me the written task force documents for each state and track.


See, Robert, when you don't show you are at least trying (and Santa Anita wasn't showing that until the crap hit the fan) then people aren't going to give you a free pass.

Now, show me how the racing jurisdictions in Lousiana are trying. Show me that for Penn Nat. Show me that for Mountaineer.
SHOW ME THE STRATEGIC PLANS and Task forces.

Cuz the stuff I read makes my toes curl, and I would actually SUPPORT protesters who wanted the stuff that goes on in these places to end. I love horses, I love the sport, why wouldn't I want to see every stone turned and meticulous data kept in the interest of figuring out some strategies that might ameliorate some problems? Why wouldn't anyone want to do this work?

[Robert Fischer]

Originally Posted by clicknow

Zero deaths will never happen, on the road, in your house, or on the track----human or animal. It's a lofty goal, but will never happen.

No, you're right, zero deaths will never happen.

Right now, Santa Anita is one of the global leaders in horse racing safety. What they've done since the spike in deaths has been some most diligent practices in the history of sport. Some of their recent practices would be well to adopt for other racing jurisdictions.

I do not disagree with your comments. I do however, want to contextualize this thread, and some of the recent media coverage.

"Deathometer" style death-tolls are exploitative media, and emotional reactions to that style of media is not going to align with reality, nor with some of the directions that you expound upon.

We have to start with reality. This thread is not reality. It's also not about Mountaineer, nor is it about prevention. It is 'about; the death-o-meter.

I've been someone who has said (even posted a crude graphic representation) that horse racing has not been keeping pace with cultural norms. Consistency is not enough. It's not enough to keep ahead of the cultural norms or the rivals(such as PETA). As you elaborate, it's also not enough to address prevention. You can't claim to do your due diligence if you aren't addressing issues.

For the context of this thread? - When is it going to stop? It is never going to stop.

Originally Posted by clicknow

Again, if you keep trying to move the conversation to "deaths" instead of "preventable deaths", then we make no progress in the conversation.

Zero deaths will never happen, on the road, in your house, or on the track----human or animal. It's a lofty goal, but will never happen.

That is not what I am proposing, and you know this very well.

You cannot argue with the fact that MANY deaths, human and animal, are indeed, preventable. That doesn't mean they won't happen, it means we can reduce them markedly though.


What the public is seeing, is what many passionate racing fans are seeing: a lack of uniform strategic plans and policies to address race horse safety by track owners and racing commissions, and a lack of task forces to put all the pieces of the puzzle together ( all the pieces, medication rules, musculoskeletal and cardiovascular issues, race track configurations, blah blahblah)----because we have to keep trying. For the longevity of the sport, and for the horses themselves.

WHEN you are showing you are dilligently TRYING to put all the pieces of the puzzle together, then people tend to be less judgemental because you have written out, for all to see, your goals and what you intend to do toward carrying them out.

Again, show me the written task force documents for each state and track.


See, Robert, when you don't show you are at least trying (and Santa Anita wasn't showing that until the crap hit the fan) then people aren't going to give you a free pass.

Now, show me how the racing jurisdictions in Lousiana are trying. Show me that for Penn Nat. Show me that for Mountaineer.
SHOW ME THE STRATEGIC PLANS and Task forces.

Cuz the stuff I read makes my toes curl, and I would actually SUPPORT protesters who wanted the stuff that goes on in these places to end. I love horses, I love the sport, why wouldn't I want to see every stone turned and meticulous data kept in the interest of figuring out some strategies that might ameliorate some problems? Why wouldn't anyone want to do this work?

[groupie doll]

Originally Posted by clicknow

A few years ago we weren't even talking about bisphosphonates.

So you are correct, there is plenty of emergent data (i.e. science) and more coming every year about how we might address and try to minimize preventable deaths.

(because nobody is saying there will be zero deaths but many are preventable).

There are people doing the work, not throwing up their hands whining about the media and how everything is impossible.

There's been task forces working on this type of thing for traffic fatalities (vehicular) as well as for pedestrians, cyclists, etc. ..... and we can do similar things for race tracks, etc.

First: You must have a clear goal.
Second: Participants have to be dilligent
Third: Participants have to, in good faith, do the work to achieve the goal.


Show me, right now, for each track and racing commission, a task force, backed by a statute, who have a thoughtful overall strategic plan written out and in place ---- with goals, objectives, interventions, meticulous data collection, and a solid action plan.

(and which would also include sub-chapters about accountability, consequences, punishments, etc. for incompetence and/or non-compliance or ignoring the goals/plan).

I think it's become obvious to many that we can no longer trust the fractured racing commissions or track owners to properly police themselves or properly conduct this sport.

Yes, this is exactly my point. A few years ago we didn't know about bisphosphonates... no telling what else we are currently unaware of, but if no one examines each and every death (objectively and not in a punitive manner), then we will never know and we can't fix what we don't know. This is the goal. Once the goal is in place (reduction in deaths), then a plan of how we get there can be constructed... hopefully not involving corrupt racing boards that are attached to a particular track and in the position to profit by sweeping data under the proverbial rug.

[GMB@BP]

Originally Posted by Big Peps

I think everybody will rest easier after racing leaves Santa Anita again for a couple months. Hoping for a clean breeder's cup weekend for sure.

That said, I agree as there will always be some catastrophic injuries in racing and as a fan, owner, trainer, employee, or whatever in the industry you can either throw in the towel or stand and fight and try to make the industry better with real reform. The definition of real reform is the issue.

The sport has a cult like following at best and the biggest issue is it may be aging its way out of even that. Sad but true and I hate to see it but sooner or later it will just be too much to overcome if the industry continues to bury its head in the sand without a clear path to reform and real leadership on how to defend itself other than " I am horseracing"

Unfortunately, too many people will turn a blind eye and too many people with a lot invested in the game still don't make their living off of racing. It's fun and games for many

There also have been deaths on the training track and turf, not only the main track, but you wont read that anywhere since it does not fit the motive.

Saying its the surface is just another way to deflect.

[djm1959]

sure hope no horses die saturday or sunday...that may be the last nail in network tv coverage of racing

[Dream_Police]

It doesn't matter if a horse breaks down Friday or Saturday, money decides what is on TV and if NBC or any other station has paid for the right to televise these events then it is going to be on TV.
The most horrific breakdown I have seen WAS on BC day , when Go For Wand broke down in the distaff and they showed her getting back up with her broken leg and the owners and trainers bawling their eyes out and that didn't stop horse racing from being televised.

[Dream_Police]

As far as one governing body, don't hold your breath as all of them like their little kingdoms and power that comes along with it. Getting to make the rules and adjust whatever and whenever is also what they like about their setup.
What is best for the sport is secondary to holding on to power and $$$.

[horsefan2019]

Originally Posted by djm1959

sure hope no horses die saturday or sunday...that may be the last nail in network tv coverage of racing

How so? Don't forget they've covered races on network TV in the past where a horse had to be put down. There was a races in the Breeders Cup in the past where a horse was put down and they moved on. The people throwing a fit are the PETA or animal rights protestors.

[horsefan2019]

Originally Posted by clicknow

Please list the racing jurisdictions who have adopted, in full, the National Uniform Medication Program as provided by the Association of Racing Commissioners International.

"limit medication" is a nebulous term until you define what that is, so the use of the phrase otherwise, without clear numbers, is haphazard.

Santa Anita already made changes in procedures, so it doesn't matter if you aren't happy with it. The fact is some people want the track to shut down and you can't really negotiate with those people.

[horsefan2019]

Originally Posted by Robert Fischer

No, you're right, zero deaths will never happen.

Right now, Santa Anita is one of the global leaders in horse racing safety. What they've done since the spike in deaths has been some most diligent practices in the history of sport. Some of their recent practices would be well to adopt for other racing jurisdictions.

I do not disagree with your comments. I do however, want to contextualize this thread, and some of the recent media coverage.

"Deathometer" style death-tolls are exploitative media, and emotional reactions to that style of media is not going to align with reality, nor with some of the directions that you expound upon.

We have to start with reality. This thread is not reality. It's also not about Mountaineer, nor is it about prevention. It is 'about; the death-o-meter.

I've been someone who has said (even posted a crude graphic representation) that horse racing has not been keeping pace with cultural norms. Consistency is not enough. It's not enough to keep ahead of the cultural norms or the rivals(such as PETA). As you elaborate, it's also not enough to address prevention. You can't claim to do your due diligence if you aren't addressing issues.

For the context of this thread? - When is it going to stop? It is never going to stop.

Yep, and right now I see that is all the media has to go with. The track already made changes, and there has been a noticeable reduction in deaths, although its not zero, its a change in the right direction.

[The_Turf_Monster]

It'll stop when the 'therapeutic' medications aren't administered in order to get a horse to run. It's really that simple, the injuries need to heal. We all know that won't happen as long as every horseman is trying to squeeze every last dollar out of a horse. The vast majority of breakdowns is due to horsemen running unsound horses to squeeze more money out of them

[GMB@BP]

And yet a major medication proposed change gets voted down in Kentucky and yet is there even a mention of it on this forum?

Nope.

Have to question the motives on some of the threads when major news like that isnt even a topic yet we are chronicling with new threads every horse that sustains a breakdown.