RIP to Mongolian Groom and CA Racing

[AndyC]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

Personally I think legislation is the best way to solve it.

A significant portion of horse racing's problems actually traces back to a single issue- the sport is regulated by insiders.

The entire premise behind something like WADA is that you put a group of scientists who don't stand to make a single dollar from the sports they regulate in charge of drug testing. So that's who you want to be doing your drug testing.

Similarly, you want your regulators to be people with no participation in the sport. People who have no relationships with any owners, trainers, or veterinarians. Yes, there will be a learning curve because they will have to get to know the sport, but the people who are making decisions as to what medications are allowed, when horses have to be scratched, what trainers and vets have to be removed from the sport, etc., need to people who simply have no interest in protecting their friends or their own future incomes.

One story about vets, and this might explain some of the reason I don't accept everyone's assurances about how honest Larry Bramlage is. This sport kept Alex Harthill in the sport for 40 years, AFTER he fixed the Kentucky Derby by doping a horse. Not only did he keep his job, he was exactly what Bramlage now- a charismatic, media-friendly vet who was called on when there was some issue that required a vet's opinion or an examination.

I mean, compare that to baseball's treatment of the Black Sox. All of them were removed from baseball, permanently. For fixing 8 baseball games.

How many of the vets in our sport have doped horses in 8 races or more? And they don't even face a suspension or a fine, let alone getting kicked out of the sport.

If we want this sport to survive, the key regulatory decisions need to be taken by people who wouldn't even return Bob Baffert's or Steve Asmussen's or, yes, Rick Arthur's or Larry Bramlage's calls. And you can get that through federal legislation.

If we want the sport to survive we should avoid government regulation! The notion that if somehow we now got federal regulation in stead of just state regulation the problems would all be solved, is ludicrous.

The tracks have a vested interest in preventing breakdowns and horses dying on the track. The optics suck and it turns off bettors and potential bettors. They are acting and will continue to act to minimize the problem. There is no quick fix or anything a new bureaucracy can do to stop the problem. But more regulation will surely bring more costs to an industry that can barely keeps its doors open because they can't compete with other gambling options.

[GMB@BP]

We just need more government to solve the problem, thats the ticket.

[bob60566]

Originally Posted by AndyC

If we want the sport to survive we should avoid government regulation! The notion that if somehow we now got federal regulation in stead of just state regulation the problems would all be solved, is ludicrous.

The tracks have a vested interest in preventing breakdowns and horses dying on the track. The optics suck and it turns off bettors and potential bettors. They are acting and will continue to act to minimize the problem. There is no quick fix or anything a new bureaucracy can do to stop the problem. But more regulation will surely bring more costs to an industry that can barely keeps its doors open because they can't compete with other gambling options.

Andy Do the other gambling options have uncontrolled drug abuse.?

[FenceBored]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

I'm sorry, I don't trust anyone who works as a veterinarian in the sporr of American thoroughbred racing, Bramlage included.

In other words you won't trust any of the best equine orthopedic surgeons in the country to evaluate a musculoskeletal failure in Mongolian Groom because they'll all have worked on racehorses in the course of their careers.

[airford1]

I think its time to give this a REST

[Elkchester Road]

Originally Posted by AndyC

If we want the sport to survive we should avoid government regulation! The notion that if somehow we now got federal regulation in stead of just state regulation the problems would all be solved, is ludicrous.

The tracks have a vested interest in preventing breakdowns and horses dying on the track. The optics suck and it turns off bettors and potential bettors. They are acting and will continue to act to minimize the problem. There is no quick fix or anything a new bureaucracy can do to stop the problem. But more regulation will surely bring more costs to an industry that can barely keeps its doors open because they can't compete with other gambling options.

I understand anyone's hesitation with having Federal oversight of racing but must respectfully disagree with your opinion about the tracks and the role they should play. The tracks have been at the mercy of the horsemen for a long time, and that is a huge part of the problems facing us.

[burnsy]

Originally Posted by Elkchester Road

I understand anyone's hesitation with having Federal oversight of racing but must respectfully disagree with your opinion about the tracks and the role they should play. The tracks have been at the mercy of the horsemen for a long time, and that is a huge part of the problems facing us.

Most people don’t understand this point you made which is very accurate. The tracks have no central plan of governance. It’s basically a hodge podge of jurisdictions. To further complicate matters is the non appearance of fairness, with a lack of objectivity and being open to the betting public you can’t have these boards loaded with horseman and breeders. The fact that the truth comes out months later is an embarrassment. It’s been so openly apparent that things get covered up and certain people enjoy leniency on certain matters that others do not. Things like this lead to a situation of zero credibility with the public which leads to pressure from the media that raises the attention of politicians and govt bodies.

The bottom line is people can cry the blues about govt intervention. But the facts are that this industry is damn near clueless on how to stave that off. They are stubborn, living in denial of how they operate and constantly play the “victim “ card. Instead of cleaning it up on their own. The media , politicians, interest groups and the govt. are hungry wolves now just waiting for the next foot to drop. And this game always seems willing to oblige. Of course, no one want federal jurisdiction.....but this game sometimes makes the best case for it.......

[Robert Fischer]

Originally Posted by Elkchester Road

Until much of the financial incentives are removed from American racing, NOTHING is changing. The horses will continue to be treated as commodities.

They are commodities.

[bob60566]

I think this study shows,
If you need bute to race or train, you shouldn’t race or train at all


https://www.drf.com/news/study-shows...ty-horses-bute

[castaway01]

Originally Posted by bob60566

Andy Do the other gambling options have uncontrolled drug abuse.?

There's a lot of uncontrolled drug abuse in sports and in society in general (of course your definition of "abuse" and mine likely differ, but you used the word). Check the size of NFL linemen now vs. 30 years ago. Or watch an Olympic track and field event. Or read about the Tour de France's history with the issue. Baseball is cleaner than it was but not exactly clean. And before you say "But they test," yeah they all do and occasionally someone even gets caught. What other sport does that remind you of?

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by Robert Fischer

They are commodities.

Some see horses as commodities...and some don't. And now, these two viewpoints have squared off against each other on the field of battle. And, as with all battles...the "strongest" side will emerge victorious.

[cj]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

Some see horses as commodities...and some don't. And now, these two viewpoints have squared off against each other on the field of battle. And, as with all battles...the "strongest" side will emerge victorious.

They are living, breathing commodities so they can't be treated the same as other commodities. The sport will adapt or it will die.

[AndyC]

Originally Posted by bob60566

Andy Do the other gambling options have uncontrolled drug abuse.?

Is there a sport that has controlled drugs? Everybody tests yet there are still drugs being used.

[AndyC]

Originally Posted by Elkchester Road

I understand anyone's hesitation with having Federal oversight of racing but must respectfully disagree with your opinion about the tracks and the role they should play. The tracks have been at the mercy of the horsemen for a long time, and that is a huge part of the problems facing us.

I don't disagree with you regarding the horsemen but I see that as a product of regulation.

[AndyC]

Originally Posted by burnsy

Most people don’t understand this point you made which is very accurate. The tracks have no central plan of governance. It’s basically a hodge podge of jurisdictions. To further complicate matters is the non appearance of fairness, with a lack of objectivity and being open to the betting public you can’t have these boards loaded with horseman and breeders. The fact that the truth comes out months later is an embarrassment. It’s been so openly apparent that things get covered up and certain people enjoy leniency on certain matters that others do not. Things like this lead to a situation of zero credibility with the public which leads to pressure from the media that raises the attention of politicians and govt bodies.

The bottom line is people can cry the blues about govt intervention. But the facts are that this industry is damn near clueless on how to stave that off. They are stubborn, living in denial of how they operate and constantly play the “victim “ card. Instead of cleaning it up on their own. The media , politicians, interest groups and the govt. are hungry wolves now just waiting for the next foot to drop. And this game always seems willing to oblige. Of course, no one want federal jurisdiction.....but this game sometimes makes the best case for it.......

What is a central plan of governance? Why must Santa Anita be like every other track?

If I as a bettor think things aren't fair, I don't bet. If I don't like a certain retail store because of how they treat me or because their prices are too high, I don't shop there. I don't require that they give me a seat on their board of directors.

There are things that governments should be involved with but micromanaging businesses shouldn't be one of them.