Why do you really oppose a wall?

[Clocker]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

So why are we wasting all this time arguing about this? Why is the gov't shut down over this? Why are we looking to spend 25B on this?

Surely, given the above, any argument in favor of the wall should fall flat on its face. Nothing Donald Trump could say or do could overcome what you just posted, correct?

No reasonable person denies that illegals coming across the southern border are a big problem, and that barriers in appropriate places work.

But illegals who came in legally are also a big problem. My guess would be that these illegals are much more likely to take good jobs than those coming in from the south. I am not saying that we should not try to do a better job on the southern border. I'm saying that Trump's focus seems to be entirely on his campaign promise to build a wall, and that he seems to be ignoring everything else. It's not about doing the job smartly, it's about his ego and his unwillingness to compromise.

The comedy duo of Chuck & Nancy is just as irrational. Their position and refusal to compromise is just as simplistic and political as Trump's. I have seen no sign that they have any grasp of the real issues, or any useful solutions.

[elysiantraveller]

Originally Posted by Clocker

No reasonable person denies that illegals coming across the southern border are a big problem, and that barriers in appropriate places work.

But illegals who came in legally are also a big problem. My guess would be that these illegals are much more likely to take good jobs than those coming in from the south. I am not saying that we should not try to do a better job on the southern border. I'm saying that Trump's focus seems to be entirely on his campaign promise to build a wall, and that he seems to be ignoring everything else. It's not about doing the job smartly, it's about his ego and his unwillingness to compromise.

The comedy duo of Chuck & Nancy is just as irrational. Their position and refusal to compromise is just as simplistic and political as Trump's. I have seen no sign that they have any grasp of the real issues, or any useful solutions.

The main difference this time around though is Trump is the one needing something. Not Chuck and Nancy. When they did need something they offered him the full amount he requested not once but twice.

They have no interest in striking a compromise when the President has repeatedly changed what he is willing to accept. You don't make tons of offers at compromise to a person who is unreliable. You wait for them to offer you something you will take.

Trump killed the notion of DACA for the Wall yesterday so... right now there is no possibility for compromise.

Democrats riding high on a pretty solid mid-term showing and Trump's personal "proud to shutdown the government" moment have strengthened their position.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by Burls

What you say is entirely correct here, PA.
But Drumph doesn't want to give up on the wall because he doesn't want to lose face in front of the cool kids, Rush and Anne.
Pretty pathetic?
I think so.

Then there must be some reason, other than Trump, that requires us to still argue, still shut down the gov't, and still look to spend 25B on construction of a wall.

What is it?

If it were JUST TRUMP, we wouldn't be in this place right now.

Clocker just wrote "No reasonable person denies that illegals coming across the southern border are a big problem, and that barriers in appropriate places work."

Perhaps therein lies the answer to my question.

[Clocker]

Originally Posted by chadk66

government has a 60' easement along the border they can do with what they please

Why do you keep beating this dead horse?

The Rio Grande River runs along 1,254 miles of the border between Mexico and the United States and does not flow in a straight line—instead twisting, turning, and flooding regularly. Under the International Boundary and Water Commission, created in 1889 by the U.S. and Mexico, border barriers may not disrupt the flow of the Rio Grande. As a result, the current border fencing in Texas is located miles away from the border on private land owner’s property.

https://www.americanimmigrationcounc...of-border-wall

[elysiantraveller]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

Then there must be some reason, other than Trump, that requires us to still argue, still shut down the gov't, and still look to spend 25B on construction of a wall.

What is it?

If it were JUST TRUMP, we wouldn't be in this place right now.

Clocker just wrote "No reasonable person denies that illegals coming across the southern border are a big problem, and that barriers in appropriate places work."

Perhaps therein lies the answer to my question.

It is Trump.

McConnell would have never passed the spending bills out of the Senate if he had thought the President was going to veto them. He was told by Pence that Trump would sign them so they were passed unanimously out. Trump then listened to Ann and Rush and changed his mind.

That's why we are here right now.

Currently Senate Republicans are still being good soldiers and blocking legislation they've already passed to shield the President from having to veto it.

[lamboguy]

https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/c...ent-statistics

[Clocker]

As to the previous question about the wall and smugglers, this from an article in the Texas Tribune:

The Laredo native and sister of carjacking kingpin Jose Antonio “El Comandante” Armendariz estimates she earned $15,000 to $20,000 a week smuggling immigrants before she was busted in 2012. She says if she were still in the business, a wall wouldn’t slow her down much because there’s always a Border Patrol agent or customs official willing to take a bribe and look the other way.

And a lifelong marijuana trafficker from Starr County who said he moved about 50 tons of marijuana a year through border checkpoints in 18-wheelers told the The Texas Tribune in an interview last summer that a wall wouldn’t stop him, either.

The government’s own reports show that drug smugglers mostly bring their product into the United States through ports of entry — not across the river where the wall would be built — and the smuggler said he had a good system for sneaking it past the checkpoints that straddle the highways leading away from the border.

https://www.texastribune.org/2018/01...rants-drugs-p/

[chadk66]

Originally Posted by Clocker

Why do you keep beating this dead horse?


https://www.americanimmigrationcounc...of-border-wall

because it’s a fact and you didn’t know it until I told you.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by elysiantraveller

It is Trump.

McConnell would have never passed the spending bills out of the Senate if he had thought the President was going to veto them. He was told by Pence that Trump would sign them so they were passed unanimously out. Trump then listened to Ann and Rush and changed his mind.

That's why we are here right now.

Currently Senate Republicans are still being good soldiers and blocking legislation they've already passed to shield the President from having to veto it.

So there is absolutely no reason to build any sort of wall.

And HTF do you know "Ann & Rush" were the reason? Or is that just liberal bullshit talking point that you like to incorporate every now and then, despite your claim that you're one of the most (truly) conservative among off-topic.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by Clocker

https://www.texastribune.org/2018/01...rants-drugs-p/

Nice headline. Does anyone think immigrants would say "Yeah, Trump's wall would definitely stop us" if they thought it would? LOL

[elysiantraveller]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

So there is absolutely no reason to build any sort of wall.

And HTF do you know "Ann & Rush" were the reason? Or is that just liberal bullshit talking point that you like to incorporate every now and then, despite your claim that you're one of the most (truly) conservative among off-topic.

Rush did say he talked to the President... somebody changed his mind... its as good of reason as any.

You want to argue about why he changed his mind instead of the fact he changed his mind....

You can't negotiate with that.

[TJDave]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

Nice headline. Does anyone think immigrants would say "Yeah, Trump's wall would definitely stop us" if they thought it would? LOL

Did you read it?

My takeaway was the determination and amount paid to smugglers. There must be a reason to risk coming here.

Wonder what that could be? ;-)

[Lemon Drop Husker]

Dear Diary...

[Nitro]

I thought one of the most intriguing solutions I’ve heard to solve the border issue was to take the following steps:

1) Dredge out the entire border length and create a channel with sufficient depth and width to allow the Colorado river to fill it and flow freely.

2) Transport all of the dredged-out earth to New Orleans to build up all the levees.

3) Catch and transport hundreds live Alligators from the over-population in Florida for deposit into the dredged borderline channel.

This seems to solve a number of things.

[Lemon Drop Husker]

Originally Posted by Nitro

I thought one of the most intriguing solutions I’ve heard to solve the border issue was to take the following steps:

1) Dredge out the entire border length and create a channel with sufficient depth and width to allow the Colorado river to fill it and flow freely.

2) Transport all of the dredged-out earth to New Orleans to build up all the levees.

3) Catch and transport hundreds live Alligators from the over-population in Florida for deposit into the dredged borderline channel.

This seems to solve a number of things.

I'm not sure if this is serious or not.



Need confirmation.