Cubs or Indians?

[thaskalos]

Could Maddon really be this petrified of the Indians, that he brings his closer in the 7th inning AGAIN...even though the Cubs have a 5-run lead?

Why not save your closer for game 7? Absolutely MORONIC!!!

[cj]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

Could Maddon really be this petrified of the Indians, that he brings his closer in the 7th inning AGAIN...even though the Cubs have a 5-run lead?

Why not save your closer for game 7? Absolutely MORONIC!!!

They will win in spite of Maddon, not because of him.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by cj

They will win in spite of Maddon, not because of him.

If Rizzo doesn't hit the 9th inning homer...then Maddon sends Chapman out to finish the game. Pathetic bullpen management...as it has been all season long.

[thaskalos]

And now, to show us what a "thinker" he is...Maddon changes pitchers with one out to go in the game.

[VigorsTheGrey]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

And now, to show us what a "thinker" he is...Maddon changes pitchers with one out to go in the game.

So does that mean the closer can still close next game 7?

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by VigorsTheGrey

So does that mean the closer can still close next game 7?

Who knows how effective Chapman will be...after throwing 65 pitches in the last two games.

[Steve 'StatMan']

Originally Posted by thaskalos

Who knows how effective Chapman will be...after throwing 65 pitches in the last two games.

Well, over 3 days. I think maybe 19 of those were tonight/last night.

2 runners were on when they brought him in in the 7th. I thought he might use him just to finish the inning with no more damage. But I thought it was crazy to bring him back in the 8th. The 9th, that was pushing it in my mind. But with Strop giving up a hit, no need to see if others can hit him tonight, brought in Wood, got the Double Play thankfully. Only 1 game left in the season tomorrow(tonight) so let it all hang out. But yeah, I wince sometimes too.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by Steve 'StatMan'

Well, over 3 days. I think maybe 19 of those were tonight/last night.

2 runners were on when they brought him in in the 7th. I thought he might use him just to finish the inning with no more damage. But I thought it was crazy to bring him back in the 8th. The 9th, that was pushing it in my mind. But with Strop giving up a hit, no need to see if others can hit him tonight, brought in Wood, got the Double Play thankfully. Only 1 game left in the season tomorrow(tonight) so let it all hang out. But yeah, I wince sometimes too.

You have men on first and second in the 7th...with two outs and a 5-run lead. God help us if we don't have another reliever to depend on to get the final out in that situation, in order to avoid having to bring in our star closer in the 7th inning...with a game 7 upcoming. When asked why Chapman was sent back in to pitch the 8th inning...Maddon made the absurd argument that the game's outcome was somehow still "in doubt"...even with the late 5-run lead.

What message does it send to the rest of the bullpen...when the manager shows that he only trusts Chapman in a situation such as that? If he distrusts Rondon that much...then why put him on the playoff roster to begin with? He takes out Strop, and brings in Wood to get the final out of the game. Was that because he felt there was a chance that Strop would have given up 6 more runs...before getting that final out?

Maddon doesn't DESERVE a team like the Cubs...IMO.

[OTM Al]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

Who knows how effective Chapman will be...after throwing 65 pitches in the last two games.

There was a day off in between and his stats have shown him to be better on 2nd game with no rest than in a game with rest. There is nothing to save him for anymore and he likely will not be back with the club so use every last ounce you can get from him.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by OTM Al

There was a day off in between and his stats have shown him to be better on 2nd game with no rest than in a game with rest. There is nothing to save him for anymore and he likely will not be back with the club so use every last ounce you can get from him.

IMO...the rest of the bullpen deserves to take part in this too...especially when the team holds a large lead in the 8th inning. A good "field general" doesn't openly display total distrust for the rest of his bullpen at such a critical stage...while stroking the head of a late acquisition...who won't be back with the team next year.

And all along...it's been reported that "player relations" is where Maddon shines.

[OTM Al]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

IMO...the rest of the bullpen deserves to take part in this too...especially when the team holds a large lead in the 8th inning. A good "field general" doesn't openly display total distrust for the rest of his bullpen at such a critical stage...while stroking the head of a late acquisition...who won't be back with the team next year.

And all along...it's been reported that "player relations" is where Maddon shines.

I don't think player relations will be any problem if they win. "Deserves" is for kids leagues that get participation trophies. He's dealing with the weight of much more than a whole city and isn't taking chances. I don't blame him at all and won't even if in the end it doesn't work. Runs can go on the board very quickly in that stadium. I still remember Mariano Rivera getting burned there by Sandy Alomar in 1997.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by OTM Al

I don't think player relations will be any problem if they win. "Deserves" is for kids leagues that get participation trophies. He's dealing with the weight of much more than a whole city and isn't taking chances. I don't blame him at all and won't even if in the end it doesn't work. Runs can go on the board very quickly in that stadium. I still remember Mariano Rivera getting burned there by Sandy Alomar in 1997.

Come on Al. You are not exactly "taking chances" when you send out Rondon to pitch the 8th inning...with your team up 7-2. And you also are not "taking chances" when you allow Strop to finish the game with a 9-3 lead...instead of bringing in Wood for the final out. This is just "genius Maddon"...showing us what a "smart guy" he is.

He is acting as if he is Bobby Fischer out there...when the spotlight should be on the players...where it belongs. As a long-suffering, life-long Cubs fan...only 60% of me is with the Cubs tonight.

[OTM Al]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

Come on Al. You are not exactly "taking chances" when you send out Rondon to pitch the 8th inning...with your team up 7-2. And you also are not "taking chances" when you allow Strop to finish the game with a 9-3 lead...instead of bringing in Wood for the final out. This is just "genius Maddon"...showing us what a "smart guy" he is.

He is acting as if he is Bobby Fischer out there...when the spotlight should be on the players...where it belongs. As a long-suffering, life-long Cubs fan...only 60% of me is with the Cubs tonight.

He's the same guy that got Tampa, the worst team in the league for a very long time, into a WS. He is an excellent manager. Much of the league is copying things that he brought back into the game. So maybe he is going too far but would you rather have Buck Showalter who didn't use his big gun and just never seems to get there? They will be fine.

[mostpost]

All this stuff about overusing Chapman is just looking for trouble where there is none. He had three consecutive games off before he threw 23 pitches in game 2 of the World Series. Then he had a day off for the travel day and threw 17 pitches in Game 3. After another day off in Game 4, he threw 42 in game 5. (he was still throwing 100+MPH at the end. After another travel day, he threw 20 last night.

So all together, Chapman has thrown 102 pitches in seven days with a day off between each appearance. A typical winning starter will throw 85-100 pitches and will do it twice in the same period.

I think that Chapman's workload over the past week will not have a deleterious effect on him and will have him very sharp for tonight's game.

[Valuist]

Originally Posted by mostpost

All this stuff about overusing Chapman is just looking for trouble where there is none. He had three consecutive games off before he threw 23 pitches in game 2 of the World Series. Then he had a day off for the travel day and threw 17 pitches in Game 3. After another day off in Game 4, he threw 42 in game 5. (he was still throwing 100+MPH at the end. After another travel day, he threw 20 last night.

So all together, Chapman has thrown 102 pitches in seven days with a day off between each appearance. A typical winning starter will throw 85-100 pitches and will do it twice in the same period.

I think that Chapman's workload over the past week will not have a deleterious effect on him and will have him very sharp for tonight's game.

62 pitches since Sunday is a lot for a reliever. He's used to pitching one inning. The hope was that you could get 2 or 2 2/3 innings tonight. That is now off the table.

Can we even count his pitches the same as others? He clearly throws harder than anyone. The move last night by Maddon was unexplainable, unnecessary, and likely will limit Chapman's availability to one inning. Should the bullpen implode tonight, Maddon will not live this move down.