Betmix

[flyboyandy]

I'm a very long time horse bettor, but very much an armature. With that said I have used handicapping software going back to 1985 or so and one harness handicapping software.

I tried a bit to understand Betmix and the different parts but I believe it can be overwhelming after watching the videos.

Does anyone here use it and have any recommendations or feedback?

[headhawg]

Partsnut is the member that can probably help you the most. You can do a search here for "Betmix" and find some threads on it. Here is one: http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/s...ghlight=betmix

Good luck!

[Tom]

Amazon has a free Kindle ebook on Betmix.

[Partsnut]

Originally Posted by flyboyandy

I'm a very long time horse bettor, but very much an armature. With that said I have used handicapping software going back to 1985 or so and one harness handicapping software.

I tried a bit to understand Betmix and the different parts but I believe it can be overwhelming after watching the videos.

Does anyone here use it and have any recommendations or feedback?

I was a subscriber to BetMix for a few year but recently decided to give it up.

When Dave Williams, who is one hell of a nice guy, sold BetMix to the Stronach group. His original intentions and focus changed dramatically. The application and new additions where limited to and focused on "ToteBoarder" a module within the application which allows the user to wager through Xpress Bet which is part of the Stronach Group. ToteBoarder was indeed a device that offered the bettor certain tools which in my opinion were limited, so that the user might make a betting decision. Other then that, not many major changes has transpired within the past two years.

BetMix was a great tool if you had and wanted to devote a major portion of your time to learning and using it. It demanded an extreme amount of work, handicapping an individual race was an arduous affair.
The promises of automating the slider process, never happened. The promises of a new longshot module never happened. Promises were made that were not allowed or could be kept. User suggestions were ignored.
I am not faulting Dave Williams. He has to abide by whatever his employer dictates. Naturally and as one would expect, business is business and like everything else in today's world, It's all about the money.

[thaskalos]

Xpressbet has now acquired Betmix. Does this mean that an xpressbet customer can now access Betmix for free? Betmix mentions speed and pace figures. Does anyone know what kind of speed and pace figures this handicapping software uses?

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by Partsnut

I was a subscriber to BetMix for a few year but recently decided to give it up.

When Dave Williams, who is one hell of a nice guy, sold BetMix to the Stronach group. His original intentions and focus changed dramatically. The application and new additions where limited to and focused on "ToteBoarder" a module within the application which allows the user to wager through Xpress Bet which is part of the Stronach Group. ToteBoarder was indeed a device that offered the bettor certain tools which in my opinion were limited, so that the user might make a betting decision. Other then that, not many major changes has transpired within the past two years.

BetMix was a great tool if you had and wanted to devote a major portion of your time to learning and using it. It demanded an extreme amount of work, handicapping an individual race was an arduous affair.
The promises of automating the slider process, never happened. The promises of a new longshot module never happened. Promises were made that were not allowed or could be kept. User suggestions were ignored.
I am not faulting Dave Williams. He has to abide by whatever his employer dictates. Naturally and as one would expect, business is business and like everything else in today's world, It's all about the money.

What is so "arduous" about creating your own handicapping method, saving it on your computer...and then using it to automatically handicap all upcoming races? It seems very efficient to me...unless I am misunderstanding the product's premise.

[NorCalGreg]

I was a Bet-Mix user for maybe 6 months. This was 6 or 7 years ago-- before the program "went Hollywood". I really enjoyed the program--it was fun!

I was a pretty hardcore horseplayer then...would stay up all night handicapping. This is how "hardcore" I was...one night the program wouldn't load. I immediately called the support number--but I was so wrapped up in handicapping, I didn't even realize I was calling on New Years Eve! The programmer hadn't updated the program for the new year with the new date...was the problem.
Dave Williams himself took my call, at appx 1:00AM (NewYear's Day). He politely explained he would get ahold of his programmer, get him out of bed, and take care of it.
Half an hour later--it was working again.

I never made a profit with Bet-Mix, so eventually moved on to making my own programs. Definitely no complaints about customer service. Give it a shot, if the price is still the same. It was a bargain at the time.

-NCG

[Speed Figure]

The speed ratings are provided by brisnet so it must be using brisnet data looking at all of the other factors.

[kingfin66]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

What is so "arduous" about creating your own handicapping method, saving it on your computer...and then using it to automatically handicap all upcoming races? It seems very efficient to me...unless I am misunderstanding the product's premise.

Thask,

It sounds as though you are referring to creating mixes. That was the premise in the beginning of Betmix, but a lot has changed since then. Creating mixes is still possible, but it is essentially back fitting data, which is not something that will hold up to make a profit. Of course, the early mixes were limited to sets of 40 cases (someone correct me if I am wrong, it has been a while), but there is now a way to go back much further - like 8 or 9 years worth of data.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by kingfin66

Thask,

It sounds as though you are referring to creating mixes. That was the premise in the beginning of Betmix, but a lot has changed since then. Creating mixes is still possible, but it is essentially back fitting data, which is not something that will hold up to make a profit. Of course, the early mixes were limited to sets of 40 cases (someone correct me if I am wrong, it has been a while), but there is now a way to go back much further - like 8 or 9 years worth of data.

I could easily be wrong about Betmix...because my knowledge of it is limited to the Amazon book that Tom already mentioned earlier. I tried watching a couple of their tutorial videos, but I couldn't enlarge my computer screen enough to see what was really going on there.

I have no use for any "back-fitting"...that's not what I was talking about. I thought that they also offer numerous handicapping factors that you can prearrange and grade ahead of time...so you could use and judge their effectiveness in real time. That's what I was talking about...and that's what I am mainly interested in.

In any case...$50 a month seems like a cheap price to pay for the unlimited use of speed and pace figures, along with a database that includes 8-9 years worth of data.

[Red Knave]

As noted above, Partsnut seems to have used this more than anyone here so having him say he has moved on is telling. I used it for a month 2 1/2 years ago, so take this with a large grain of salt. I found it used only mainstream factors and I didn't seem to be able combine them in any logical way. I never got the hang of actually saving and running a 'mix' that could run across a day's races to produce a list of contenders.
A month was hardly a fair test but it didn't fit my style (whatever that is )

[crestridge]

FLYBOY

Go to HDW, RDDS, or Nor Greg, you'll be more satisfied!!! Or better yet, develop your own protocol, with a "mix" of programs, which is always fun to search/create!!!

[Light]

Betmix uses general factors that are not as expansive as I wanted when i used it. Amongst my several homegrown handicapping systems, I use a similar theme to Betmix and amass a database to the results.

So lets say a horse is dropping class. My data shows that "drops", if it is THE ONLY FACTOR of significance the horse has,then it wins at 22%. But lets say the horse is dropping and had trouble in its last race, then its a 40% win rate. Or lets say,the horse is dropping but is switching to a lower percentage (by 10 points or more) trainer or jockey, the win percentage is 10%. I must have at least 100 different combos of a horse dropping with different form factors attached to the drop with corresponding win percentage related to that form combination. Of course dropping is only one criteria a horse may have. Betmix does not give that in depth detail that I required.

Also the above factors are according to my own criteria. For example, the database to create the form factor percentages is only extracted from the top 4 prime power horses, not all the horses in the field. The reason for that is that horses who are not contenders pollute the database because their form is not as true since the top 4 horses win 75% of the the time while the rest win 25%. I doubt Betmix takes this into account when amassing their database.

I did catch the $100 horse from Japan on BC day simply from his form factor percentages. In fact my percentage program had the exacta but I didn't play it. Point is that those races validate for me the authenticity of my form factor percentages. But no, I am not rolling in the dough from my program, because on average there are 3 or more horses with strong form factor percentages. And then there is the 25% that will upset. Only saying that Betmix's form factors have a long way to go. If they were as comprehensive as mine, then I would re subscribe.

[flyboyandy]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

Xpressbet has now acquired Betmix. Does this mean that an xpressbet customer can now access Betmix for free? Betmix mentions speed and pace figures. Does anyone know what kind of speed and pace figures this handicapping software uses?

No, you still have to pay for it.

[flyboyandy]

I really think that Betmix could work because it appears to use SO much data, so on any given day you can use that data to match a specific race. I wish they would offer a good training course that would use a few races a day to run that data against. The many videos available aren't good enough.