What percent of the people that gamble win consistently

[jimmy m]

I think this is going back aways 60 minutes i think did 2 pieces.The man based out of Las Vegas is a well known pro named Lem Banker and the other piece sometime in the eightys was a man named Gerry Okenuff. There was a book that came out earlier this decade called secrets of the professional gambler out of the drf press books Jimmy

[raybo]

[QUOTE=twindouble]

Originally Posted by raybo

Nobody knows for sure but the general concensus says between 2% and 5%, worldwide.

The reason a higher percentage on this forum claim to be winners is probably due to the fact that this forum does not represent all players world wide.

IMO, this forum contains, as members, a higher class of player. More intelligent and much more technically advanced than the set of "all players".

The demographic of this forum is skewed towards the high end of players.[/QUOTE]

Raybo; I wouldn't for moment question the level of intelligence on this forum. Reminds me of the first business I had, encountering people from all walks of life, lawyers, accountants, engineers, school teachers, farmers, and many with less than a high school education. Guess what? They all drove trucks, like we all play the horses, those truck drivers lived and died on the roads like all other drivers, somewhat like playing the horses. The educated ones didn't start their own sorority, they commingled, ate the same food and looked out for one another in every way. As a matter of fact the traditional language of truckers still exists today, they didn't throw it to wind because computers assist them in their job by keeping logs, inventory, more efficient trucks, directions, and better living conditions while on the road. Some things just can't be taken to "a higher level" because your still driving trucks and still betting on the horses. The conditions will always be the same for both, no one or group can hijack either and turn them into something their not. Primarily because the horse flesh and humanity involved in both. In my opinion the wall street marketers here will fail at that attempt because they are discarding the core that keeps racing in business.


Good luck,

T.D.

And, your point is?

[twindouble]

[QUOTE=raybo]

Originally Posted by twindouble

And, your point is?

That's fine with me if you got nothing out of that post. It's not the first time I shot a blank with some here.



Have a good day,

TD

[raybo]

[QUOTE=twindouble]

Originally Posted by raybo

That's fine with me if you got nothing out of that post. Won't be the first time I shot a blank with some here.



Have a good day,

TD

I wasn't trying to be confrontational. I just don't know for sure if your opinion is that we don't have a higher % of successful players on this board than the industry wide 2-5% most agree on.

[raybo]

[QUOTE=twindouble]

Originally Posted by raybo

That's fine with me if you got nothing out of that post. It's not the first time I shot a blank with some here.



Have a good day,

TD

I guess I was a little thrown off by your comparison between horse players and truck drivers, also. I was a long-haul driver for a few years and fail to see the validity of the analogy.

[twindouble]

[QUOTE=raybo]

Originally Posted by twindouble

I wasn't trying to be confrontational. I just don't know for sure if your opinion is that we don't have a higher % of successful players on this board than the industry wide 2-5% most agree on.

raybo, if you read my other post where I said "I would find it hard to believe there's just 2% of members here that win. Unless I worded wrong. My whole theme in that post was, I believe there's a higher percentage of winners in this game and the stats are flawed for the reasons I mentioned. I'm not a professional writter so allow me some wiggle room if it didn't come across right.


Thanks,

T.D.

[GaryG]

IMO there are more winning players amongst "us" than the larger sample of all horse players. Those who win consistently would tend (I think) to be rather private about their business and are not the ones thumping their chest. Anyway, it is all conjecture. Hey Rook....are you out there?

[twindouble]

[QUOTE=raybo]

Originally Posted by twindouble

I guess I was a little thrown off by your comparison between horse players and truck drivers, also. I was a long-haul driver for a few years and fail to see the validity of the analogy.

Maybe it wasn't the best way to raise some awareness as to what I think is going on, all I can do is refer to my experiences and I have a great respect for those truck drivers, educated or not. Once they got behind the wheel they were one on the road, no different than players holding the racing form. Truck drivers are the core of commerce, like players are the core of the racing industry. To divide them in any way is a mistake. There is no class structure driving a truck and there shouldn't be a one when it comes to horse players. I could be wrong but from what I've read on this forum there seems to negative attitude when it comes to the average players. I guess I can say elitist. Also a pervasive disregard for "the core" players in this industry.



Regards,

T.D.

[raybo]

[QUOTE=twindouble]

Originally Posted by raybo

raybo, if you read my other post where I said "I would find it hard to believe there's just 2% of members here that win. Unless I worded wrong. My whole theme in that post was, I believe there's a higher percentage of winners in this game and the stats are flawed for the reasons I mentioned. I'm not a professional writter so allow me some wiggle room if it didn't come across right.


Thanks,

T.D.

My bad, I didn't check to see who the poster of that one was. I totally agree that there are more than likely more than 2% successful players here.

[raybo]

[QUOTE=twindouble]

Originally Posted by raybo

Maybe it wasn't the best way to raise some awareness as to what I think is going on, all I can do is refer to my experiences and I have a great respect for those truck drivers, educated or not. Once they got behind the wheel they were one on the road, no different than players holding the racing form. Truck drivers are the core of commerce, like players are the core of the racing industry. To divide them in any way is a mistake. There is no class structure driving a truck and there shouldn't be a one when it comes to horse players. I could be wrong but from what I've read on this forum there seems to negative attitude when it comes to the average players. I guess I can say elitist. Also a pervasive disregard for "the core" players in this industry.

Gotcha,

My use of the word "class" in a previous thread was in context with my belief that there are better handicappers and wagerers, per capita, here than the industry as a whole.

I did not mean that there were lower or higher class people here nor would I intentionally slight the "average" player simply because they might not be as skilled as some here. However, that said, those "poorly skilled" players make it possible for the successful player to be successful. "Human" class has nothing to do with the statement.



Regards,

T.D.

[twindouble]

raybo; Thanks for the clarification; I'm loaded with things to say but it's a tight rope for me not to offend.



Regards,


T.D.

[Rook]

Originally Posted by GaryG

Anyway, it is all conjecture. Hey Rook....are you out there?

Hi Gary,
Yeah, I'm here I read PA almost every day as a form of relaxation. I don't post very frequently because when I do, I often end up in a debate, which due to my competitive nature, I will fight to the death to avoid losing. This is not good for my blood pressure or my bottom line.

I wish you the best throughout 2009!

[badcompany]

Originally Posted by Overlay

Being able to judge the actual winning probability of horses and exotic wagers, and betting only when the odds/payoff will compensate you for the risk you're taking, are the keys.

This sounds nice, but, the win/exacta odds can change dramatically after you've placed your bet, especially at small tracks, and you don't even see the payoffs of trifectas, supers, pk4s etc.

[Overlay]

Originally Posted by badcompany

This sounds nice, but, the win/exacta odds can change dramatically after you've placed your bet, especially at small tracks, and you don't even see the payoffs of trifectas, supers, pk4s etc.

As I think has been noted in previous threads on the subject, for every horse with odds that go down at the last flash, others in the race will go up. If you've retained visibility of the winning chances of every horse in the field (rather than concentrating only on finding the one horse that has the highest probability of winning), and bet as late as possible, those breaks will be more likely to even out over time.

I grant your point about exotics for which advance payoff information is not available, but having a full-field oddsline provides a basis for calculating the probabilities associated with combinations, and a means of guiding wagering activity and judging value based on records of personal past performance. (And, as you noted, advance probable payoffs are available for exotic wagers such as exactas, quinellas, and daily doubles, allowing value determination.)

Finally, what's the alternative to taking value into account in some fashion (either intuitively or quantitatively)? Any approach geared solely to isolating selections without regard to odds will eventually be bet into obsolescence.

[ddog]

Originally Posted by Rook

Hi Gary,
Yeah, I'm here I read PA almost every day as a form of relaxation. I don't post very frequently because when I do, I often end up in a debate, which due to my competitive nature, I will fight to the death to avoid losing. This is not good for my blood pressure or my bottom line.

I wish you the best throughout 2009!

Do you have a "take" on the dime supers everywhere these days?

like or no?