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Old 07-10-2018, 07:06 PM   #1
Track Phantom
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Questions about Firenze Fire/Jason Servis

Apparently there was one or more massive bets that came in on Firenze Fire literally seconds before they left the gate in the Dwyer last Saturday. No one could possibly believe this money came from someone who wasn't privy to inside information about the horse. That inside information had to be knowledge of the "can't lose" medicine the Servis horses have been getting (for those unaware, Servis was 36 for 66 (55%) between Belmont and Monmouth going into Saturday).

The question I have is this: Can the money bet on this horse be traced back to a person? I know if it's at the track, cash in hand, probably not. But if bet through an ADW, couldn't this money be identified if someone took the time to follow the trail of it?

Secondarily, what if the trail led right back to Jason Servis? Is that a problem?
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Old 07-10-2018, 09:39 PM   #2
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Not a problem.
Shut up and bet.

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Old 07-11-2018, 04:17 AM   #3
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So Saturday at Belmont, had Leanna Willaford pick up her first win as a trainer. Too bad she is Mott Williams assistant, and is just a paper trainer, because Mott is serving a suspension. Nothing wrong there. Jason Servis wins with Freizen Fire and a huge amount of $ are bet late on the horse. Look the other way. And the best news is that Life In Shambles, the horse that was claimed, but not claimed, because she was sold back to the original owners, and sent back to the original trainer, was claimed again. This time by, guess who? Our favorite trainer, Jason Servis.
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Old 07-11-2018, 07:13 AM   #4
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Who wants to know? The money is green isn't it? The same guy (or people) jumped into a Limousine Liberal after he (they) collected!
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Old 07-11-2018, 08:50 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by jay68802 View Post
So Saturday at Belmont, had Leanna Willaford pick up her first win as a trainer. Too bad she is Mott Williams assistant, and is just a paper trainer, because Mott is serving a suspension. Nothing wrong there. Jason Servis wins with Freizen Fire and a huge amount of $ are bet late on the horse. Look the other way. And the best news is that Life In Shambles, the horse that was claimed, but not claimed, because she was sold back to the original owners, and sent back to the original trainer, was claimed again. This time by, guess who? Our favorite trainer, Jason Servis.
Leanna won many races before she worked for Mott. She is a very talented trainer who has been in charge of Mott's horses in NY for going on two decades. Calling her a "paper trainer" is as insulting as it is ignorant, or are you assuming Bill Mott puts incompetent people in charge of his owner's horses?
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Old 07-11-2018, 09:28 AM   #6
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Leanna won many races before she worked for Mott. She is a very talented trainer who has been in charge of Mott's horses in NY for going on two decades. Calling her a "paper trainer" is as insulting as it is ignorant, or are you assuming Bill Mott puts incompetent people in charge of his owner's horses?
You’re missing the point. A trainer on suspension shouldn’t be able to run his horses who are racing under another trainer “on paper.”

Isn’t Mott at NYRA most of the year? But she’s in charge, not Mott?

Last edited by Fager Fan; 07-11-2018 at 09:32 AM.
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Old 07-11-2018, 09:37 AM   #7
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Isnít Mott at NYRA most of the year? But sheís in charge, not Mott?
Simply put, no, he isn't. Bill is in Florida for a substantial portion of the year and in Saratoga for pretty much the rest. Leanna is basically always at the NYRA track that is currently racing, except obviously Saratoga, where Bill is. Leanna is taking care of the horses still at Belmont during this period, many of which will ship to race. Anyone that goes to the track and pays attention, or watches the simulcast and does the same, is aware of this.
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Old 07-11-2018, 09:57 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by jay68802 View Post
So Saturday at Belmont, had Leanna Willaford pick up her first win as a trainer. Too bad she is Mott Williams assistant, and is just a paper trainer, because Mott is serving a suspension. Nothing wrong there. Jason Servis wins with Freizen Fire and a huge amount of $ are bet late on the horse. Look the other way. And the best news is that Life In Shambles, the horse that was claimed, but not claimed, because she was sold back to the original owners, and sent back to the original trainer, was claimed again. This time by, guess who? Our favorite trainer, Jason Servis.

I am as skeptical of Servis' win % as the next guy. Servis won a 3-4 way shake for Life in Shambles I believe. I had a decent win bet on Firenze and I figured at worst it would be 5-1. Was 1/2 watching as I was working around the house, was in disbelief when I saw the 5/2 odds, but the last I had checked was with 3 minutes to go until midway through the race, did not realize it was pretty much after the gate opened that the bettor was actually able to see those odds at 5/2.

Crazy that whoever placed the big bet on Firenze was probably within 1 second or two of getting closed out

Last edited by Big Peps; 07-11-2018 at 09:59 AM. Reason: Adding to post
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Old 07-11-2018, 10:32 AM   #9
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I am as skeptical of Servis' win % as the next guy. Servis won a 3-4 way shake for Life in Shambles I believe. I had a decent win bet on Firenze and I figured at worst it would be 5-1. Was 1/2 watching as I was working around the house, was in disbelief when I saw the 5/2 odds, but the last I had checked was with 3 minutes to go until midway through the race, did not realize it was pretty much after the gate opened that the bettor was actually able to see those odds at 5/2.

Crazy that whoever placed the big bet on Firenze was probably within 1 second or two of getting closed out
When I looked at the race I was expecting him to be somewhere between 6-1 and 10-1 depending on how much "Servis is hot now" money came in on him.
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Old 07-11-2018, 10:44 AM   #10
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When I looked at the race I was expecting him to be somewhere between 6-1 and 10-1 depending on how much "Servis is hot now" money came in on him.

I play mostly Pick 3,4,5 and you simply can't leave him off a ticket. I don't love singling him because beating a Servis horse brings value because everybody has them on their tickets as well as C Brown.

It has gotten a bit ridiculous though. The European Filly on Saturday was my demise
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Old 07-11-2018, 10:58 AM   #11
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I play mostly Pick 3,4,5 and you simply can't leave him off a ticket. I don't love singling him because beating a Servis horse brings value because everybody has them on their tickets as well as C Brown.

It has gotten a bit ridiculous though. The European Filly on Saturday was my demise
That race was a joke for me.

I thought you had to either take a stand against Mendelssohn or pass the race. I came up with Firenze Fire (who I made a score on in the Champagne) and Noble Indy who I used a bit in the Derby off his LA Derby that I liked. I have no problem betting 2 horses to win when I don't like the favorite. I bet both to win and boxed the exacta. When Firenze Fire took all that money and paid 5/2 I netted lunch and beer money.
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Old 07-11-2018, 11:21 AM   #12
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That race was a joke for me.

I thought you had to either take a stand against Mendelssohn or pass the race. I came up with Firenze Fire (who I made a score on in the Champagne) and Noble Indy who I used a bit in the Derby off his LA Derby that I liked. I have no problem betting 2 horses to win when I don't like the favorite. I bet both to win and boxed the exacta. When Firenze Fire took all that money and paid 5/2 I netted lunch and beer money.
Yeah, I had Mendo and Firenze Fire on a pick 3 ticket as like I posted previously, I just don't see how you can leave out any Servis horse on a horizontal wager at this point.
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Old 07-11-2018, 11:23 AM   #13
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According to Bill Finley:

The pool for the Dwyer closed at 4:38:38. At 4:38.02, an $8,500 win bet was made on the eventual winner. A series of bets between $2,083 and $4,355 followed. At 4:38.16, 12 bets in increments of $5,000 were bet at the same time. Itís apparent that one player made a $60,000 win bet at that time, but his or her tote company was only able to record the bets at a maximum of $5,000 each.

A bet of $2,012 followed at 4:38.18. At the exact same time, a win bet of $24,055 came in and then at 4:38.21another $11,596 was bet to win on Firenze Fire.

Odds are updated in cycles and the cycles are more frequent as the race draws closer. Within the last minute before the race goes off, the odds are updated every 10 seconds.

At Cycle 2, approximately 20 seconds before the race began, Firenze Fire was 6.3-1. He went down to 5-1 with the next flash and then closed at 5-2.

http://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com...wyer-wagering/
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Old 07-11-2018, 11:43 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by the little guy View Post
Simply put, no, he isn't. Bill is in Florida for a substantial portion of the year and in Saratoga for pretty much the rest. Leanna is basically always at the NYRA track that is currently racing, except obviously Saratoga, where Bill is. Leanna is taking care of the horses still at Belmont during this period, many of which will ship to race. Anyone that goes to the track and pays attention, or watches the simulcast and does the same, is aware of this.
Thanks for explaining this to those who aren't as aware.
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Old 07-11-2018, 11:47 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turfnsport View Post
According to Bill Finley:

The pool for the Dwyer closed at 4:38:38. At 4:38.02, an $8,500 win bet was made on the eventual winner. A series of bets between $2,083 and $4,355 followed. At 4:38.16, 12 bets in increments of $5,000 were bet at the same time. Itís apparent that one player made a $60,000 win bet at that time, but his or her tote company was only able to record the bets at a maximum of $5,000 each.

A bet of $2,012 followed at 4:38.18. At the exact same time, a win bet of $24,055 came in and then at 4:38.21another $11,596 was bet to win on Firenze Fire.

Odds are updated in cycles and the cycles are more frequent as the race draws closer. Within the last minute before the race goes off, the odds are updated every 10 seconds.

At Cycle 2, approximately 20 seconds before the race began, Firenze Fire was 6.3-1. He went down to 5-1 with the next flash and then closed at 5-2.

http://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com...wyer-wagering/
Mendelssohn was such a huge underlay, this kind of action in the era of CRW is not surprising to me.
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