Ness/Midwest claimer sets track record at TAM today

[Valuist]

Looking at Saturday's GP card, I see Gulfstream is one track Ness has yet to conquer. Not many starters there but a goose egg in the win column for Ness.

[lamboguy]

http://www.newscientist.com/article/...ed-hearts.html

[Citation1947]

Originally Posted by mistergee

I am wondering if he was doing something so obviously wrong wouldnt or shouldnt the other trainers-owners complain to the point it would be stopped because after all he would be taking food off their table if it were true?

Some of those other guys are doing something wrong too. He is just doing something wrong better than they are these days.

For example, anyone able to pull up Gerald Bennett's past rulings/drug offenses?

[HoofedInTheChest]

Originally Posted by Valuist

Looking at Saturday's GP card, I see Gulfstream is one track Ness has yet to conquer. Not many starters there but a goose egg in the win column for Ness.

He got a win today in the 6th at Gulfstream with She's Packin Heat, i just sat shaking my head.

[Citation1947]

Originally Posted by Valento

Agreed with everything you said. It would really be awesome if they caight one of these guys and made a serious example of him.

On a side note, I always had a suspicion that Larry Jones retired because he felt the gov't was getting involved in the cleaning up of the sport (back around the 8 Belle's time period). Funny he's returned right after the gov't lost interest in doing anything. I'm sure I'm wrong on that hunch but unfortunately, everything I see and hear regarding racing has my skeptical.

My take on that is Jones took alot of heat for the death of Eight Belles and it was eating at him. I feel he just needed to get away for abit.

[Robert Goren]

Originally Posted by Citation1947

My take on that is Jones took alot of heat for the death of Eight Belles and it was eating at him. I feel he just needed to get away for abit.

Jones never really left the game. He just ran horses under his wife's name.

[BIG49010]

Looks like anybody can buy this, I guess the next question is how do you get it into the horse without killing them?

http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/catalog/...g=en&region=US

[pandy]

According to this ad, you can purchase ITPP for your horse from this website.

http://www.equinenow.com/horse-ad-532996

[lamboguy]

Originally Posted by pandy

According to this ad, you can purchase ITPP for your horse from this website.

http://www.equinenow.com/horse-ad-532996

there isn't any amount of money in the world that you could give me that would get me to stick any of that stuff in a race horse, i would rather die busted.

[rastajenk]

Originally Posted by Racey

Andy Beyer writes in his Drf article about this fall at Tampa Bay and Ness's win % it tells you all you need to know. That track is hurting ...damn shame.

I was going to comment about this in the other Beyer/Tampa thread, got distracted, and didn't. But consider this:

Back when Pat Day was riding all those $3.20 winners day after day at Churchill and Keeneland, did that hurt the handle as much as Beyer claims Ness is doing?
After all, he rode nearly every race; jocks have many more starts than trainers. I don't recall those tracks floundering because PayDay was making those races "unplayable."

Two things were different then. A lot of Day's career was before the blooming of full card simulcasting, so people that wanted to go to the track to bet still went, knowing that he was going to be involved with several short-priced runners. They still went. And most of his career was before the Age of the Internet, where echo chambers like this can amp up and reinforce any and all kinds of pernicious notions without any consequence or respect of the facts on the ground.

Maybe Ness is cheating; I don't have any way of knowing. Results charts are not proof one way or the other. But skipping your favorite horizontal wagers because he may have a mortal lock in one of the legs sounds to me more like whining than concerned criticism.

[castaway01]

Originally Posted by rastajenk

I was going to comment about this in the other Beyer/Tampa thread, got distracted, and didn't. But consider this:

Back when Pat Day was riding all those $3.20 winners day after day at Churchill and Keeneland, did that hurt the handle as much as Beyer claims Ness is doing?
After all, he rode nearly every race; jocks have many more starts than trainers. I don't recall those tracks floundering because PayDay was making those races "unplayable."

Two things were different then. A lot of Day's career was before the blooming of full card simulcasting, so people that wanted to go to the track to bet still went, knowing that he was going to be involved with several short-priced runners. They still went. And most of his career was before the Age of the Internet, where echo chambers like this can amp up and reinforce any and all kinds of pernicious notions without any consequence or respect of the facts on the ground.

Maybe Ness is cheating; I don't have any way of knowing. Results charts are not proof one way or the other. But skipping your favorite horizontal wagers because he may have a mortal lock in one of the legs sounds to me more like whining than concerned criticism.

Interesting point, though Day wasn't winning 50 percent of the time, and he wasn't suspected of cheating to win. He just had the best mounts and the most talent of any rider, and while people might get sick of $3.20 winners, he was still losing 75 percent of the time. If you're saying that coincidently Ness just happens to have the best horse in half the races he runs at Tampa, then fine, but that hasn't been the case for too many trainers in an extended race meet in the history of the sport.

Well, until the past few years...

[pandy]

It's not hard to check this, just look at the handle in races where Ness has a horse as compared to in races where he doesn't.

My gut feeling is that some of these super trainers do in fact have a negative effect on the handle but I have not done any research on it.

[rastajenk]

A question for the contractionists out there, those who want far fewer tracks and supposedly better betting opportunities...who is going to survive the contraction that will make the game better? Probably all of the supertrainers you love to hate.

[CincyHorseplayer]

Originally Posted by rastajenk

A question for the contractionists out there, those who want far fewer tracks and supposedly better betting opportunities...who is going to survive the contraction that will make the game better? Probably all of the supertrainers you love to hate.

You seem to not want to deal with the actual reality that this thread is about and want to add a new one when this one doesn't suit you.

You bring up Pat Day and him ruining cards.For one getting on different mounts for different trainers every race when you are on your game will get you winners.2,Day never had 50% winners.To think a trainer could do that is pure BS.Ness is doing anything he pleases.Horses improve 10-15 speed points,go up in class multiple times,even change running styles.

Now this latest addition.

You are all about the flame and let me be honest,full of $hit.

Sincerely yours,

Rod Denton

[rastajenk]

All I'm saying is, be careful what you wish for.