30% sales tax?

[46zilzal]

What an inane idea.

[Poindexter]

Originally Posted by 46zilzal

What an inane idea.

I agree with you 100 percent.

1) abusive tax on the working class and poor.
2) extremely vulnerable to abuse. Do you know how many customers used to come to my store and offer me cash for a discount a lot of times just to save a less than 10 percent sales tax. Can you imagine how prevalent this will become in mom and pop stores if there was another 30 percent tax. Let’s see customer buys a $300 whatever, the store owner could ring up $420 or he can accept cash for $360. It is begging honest folks to break the law.
3) it will destroy the economy. Working class will spend much less, rich folks will find ways to skirt the system, maybe buying a lot of stuff out of country. Let’s see. I want to buy a $5000 tv. I can pay 7 k at Best Buy or I can find it out of country for $5000. What would be my motivation to go to Best Buy. How soon does Best Buy go out of business.

This is a very stupid idea imo. Anybody that agrees with this idea convince me I am wrong.

[Bustin Stones]

What if the sales tax took the place of the following taxes...

social security
medicare
federal income
state income
local income
property
excise
alcohol
tobacco
gasoline

because with these, we are already paying more than 50% tax.

[thaskalos]

And, what if I never buy anything? Does that mean that I would pay no taxes at all?

[garyscpa]

Originally Posted by Bustin Stones

What if the sales tax took the place of the following taxes...

social security
medicare
federal income
state income
local income
property
excise
alcohol
tobacco
gasoline

because with these, we are already paying more than 50% tax.

Then they would change the rate to more than 50%.

[Poindexter]

Originally Posted by Bustin Stones

What if the sales tax took the place of the following taxes...

social security
medicare
federal income
state income
local income
property
excise
alcohol
tobacco
gasoline

because with these, we are already paying more than 50% tax.

I believe it covers federal taxes and social security and medicare taxes. None of the others, but obviously everybody pays something currently (correcting an error in my last post. The thing that really disturbs me (and I realize that there a lot of loopholes in our current tax system) but someone who makes 50 k and spends 30 k(current spending)will have to pay out 18% of their income. Someone who makes a 15 million and spends 1 million would pay 2 % of their income.

You are basically incentivizing people to not spend money which hurts the economy and the only ones that are able to spend a small percentage of their income are very high earners. Lets say you are making 300 k a year, for 10 years instead of spending 150 k a year spend 50 k a year. 300 k saved 50 k spent which increases to 65 k after the national sales tax (which amounts to a 5% taxation). and you save 235 k a year. That is awesome if you are making 300 k a year. But if you make 50 k a year you likely are spending at least 30 k of it, paying and extra 9 k in federal sales taxes or 18% of your income. Why are the people that make a huge income getting the added benefit of lower taxation potentially. Smart people will figure this out and the models they used to estimate revenues will be flawed and they will not bring enough money and kill the economy at the same time. The people that can control their spending are the ones that make the most money. People that don't make a lot of money have no reasonable way to control their spending. There is a certain amount of fixed costs that applies to everyone rich and poor.

I am not really sure about what exactly is taxed. Are rents taxed. Power bills taxed. Cable bills taxed. Cell phone bills taxed are mortgages taxed......So this is a very general post but you get the picture. It can greatly benefit the rich. If cannot benefit the working class much. It is bullshit like this that makes people hate Republicans. This is not a fair tax. It shifts the balance of the taxation burden from the wealth to the working class and poor.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

And, what if I never buy anything? Does that mean that I would pay no taxes at all?

Nice in theory, bu how practical is it?

[AndyC]

Originally Posted by Poindexter

I believe it covers federal taxes and social security and medicare taxes. None of the others, but obviously everybody pays something currently (correcting an error in my last post. The thing that really disturbs me (and I realize that there a lot of loopholes in our current tax system) but someone who makes 50 k and spends 30 k(current spending)will have to pay out 18% of their income. Someone who makes a 15 million and spends 1 million would pay 2 % of their income.

You are basically incentivizing people to not spend money which hurts the economy and the only ones that are able to spend a small percentage of their income are very high earners. Lets say you are making 300 k a year, for 10 years instead of spending 150 k a year spend 50 k a year. 300 k saved 50 k spent which increases to 65 k after the national sales tax (which amounts to a 5% taxation). and you save 235 k a year. That is awesome if you are making 300 k a year. But if you make 50 k a year you likely are spending at least 30 k of it, paying and extra 9 k in federal sales taxes or 18% of your income. Why are the people that make a huge income getting the added benefit of lower taxation potentially. Smart people will figure this out and the models they used to estimate revenues will be flawed and they will not bring enough money and kill the economy at the same time. The people that can control their spending are the ones that make the most money. People that don't make a lot of money have no reasonable way to control their spending. There is a certain amount of fixed costs that applies to everyone rich and poor.

I am not really sure about what exactly is taxed. Are rents taxed. Power bills taxed. Cable bills taxed. Cell phone bills taxed are mortgages taxed......So this is a very general post but you get the picture. It can greatly benefit the rich. If cannot benefit the working class much. It is bullshit like this that makes people hate Republicans. This is not a fair tax. It shifts the balance of the taxation burden from the wealth to the working class and poor.

Clearly there would need to be exempted products such as food and medicine/drugs. The rich are not going to quit spending.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by AndyC

Clearly there would need to be exempted products such as food and medicine/drugs. The rich are not going to quit spending.

Exactly right! What use is there in having a ton of money if you cant' enjoy it on luxuries? Money makes most people happy precisely because they can indulge themselves in every imaginable lust.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Exactly right! What use is there in having a ton of money if you cant' enjoy it on luxuries? Money makes most people happy precisely because they can indulge themselves in every imaginable lust.

jealous?

[AndyC]

What is left out in this conversation is that people making money in the underground economy would be paying taxes on their purchases. The IRS can focus exclusively on sales tax fraud and individuals would not need to spend wasted hours and money filing yearly income taxes.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

jealous?

Shirely U. Jest. I'm one of the richest people on this planet because of what I will inherit for all eternity from my Heavenly Father. Everything the Son inherits, his brothers and sisters will share in that inheritance, as well. We are co-heirs with Him.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Shirely U. Jest.

u need new material

[tbwinner]

you're missing the point where the lower income folks would receive stipends effectively allowing them to continue paying no tax.

it's not as regressive as you think.

This has been along for decades I think as "FairTax" --- I encourage people to read about it before just saying it's "30% sales tax"...it does have good and bad.

Will never happen though. The lobby to keep the IRS and crazy tax rules in law is much too strong.

[Bustin Stones]

One problem is managing the transition. You have folks who have paid into the social security and medicare system who are retired and have fully funded their benefit. Now that payroll tax is reduced or absent for them, you are asking them to pay again into that system with purchases. Or you have folks who have funded the system for decades and not yet retired, but when they do, previous payments into the system won't be acknowledged as they pay the 30% on purchases. There's no way to charge some people 30% and others something less. Or the federal government could refund everything paid in and we all start from scratch. Good luck coming up with that money.