Race shenanigans??

[MJC922]

Sadly things do happen, I've seen it at CT recently. I believe what you're seeing is someone is locked in for a couple of verticals, the winner usually heavy chalk gets a magic carpet ride to win the race and a couple of horses are designated to run underneath with the other riders well aware of who those horses are. Just my opinion but I've seen exactas that should be 4th 5th or 6th longest end up as two shortest exacta numbers after the race in these situations. Nobody legitimately can be that sharp repeatedly IMO.

[v j stauffer]

Originally Posted by MJC922

Sadly things do happen, I've seen it at CT recently. I believe what you're seeing is someone is locked in for a couple of verticals, the winner usually heavy chalk gets a magic carpet ride to win the race and a couple of horses are designated to run underneath with the other riders well aware of who those horses are. Just my opinion but I've seen exactas that should be 4th 5th or 6th longest end up as two shortest exacta numbers after the race in these situations. Nobody legitimately can be that sharp repeatedly IMO.

In those examples you've just noted. Half the riders in the race would have to be in on it!

Why for the love of god would they risk lifetime banishment.?

And why would the others in the room who weren't in on it say nothing?

What you're describing is full blown RACE FIXING!

Seems unlikely. Especially as often as you're suggesting it takes place.

[MJC922]

Originally Posted by v j stauffer

In those examples you've just noted. Half the riders in the race would have to be in on it!

Why for the love of god would they risk lifetime banishment.?

And why would the others in the room who weren't in on it say nothing?

What you're describing is full blown RACE FIXING!

Seems unlikely. Especially as often as you're suggesting it takes place.

I didn't suggest often. I don't watch these tracks every night, don't really have the time to. I'd say out of the three or four different days I've watched maybe one race per card looked like that. Keep an eye on it and you'll probably see the scenario unfold. A fan questioning anything formally I suspect isn't going to get far when a heavy favorite wins a race and lines of people are cashing tickets. Why would anyone do it? I dunno, why does anyone do dishonest things, money is usually at the root of it. Who knows organized crime may be involved. That would be my guess.

[Robert Fischer]

It's best for racing if the common fan believes that racing is nearly 100% honest, and that drugs are tested for, and cheating trainers and jocks get caught and weeded out, and that trainers and jockeys would have to be bottom of the barrel crooked unsuccessful participants given the risks to their livelihood.

[$w1fT]

Originally Posted by Robert Fischer

It's best for racing if the common fan believes that racing is nearly 100% honest, and that drugs are tested for, and cheating trainers and jocks get caught and weeded out, and that trainers and jockeys would have to be bottom of the barrel crooked unsuccessful participants given the risks to their livelihood.

Yep, that’s what many in the industry want everyone to believe. That kinda stuff only happened in the Roaring 20’s according to some. Could never happen today.

[baconswitchfarm]

Originally Posted by v j stauffer

In those examples you've just noted. Half the riders in the race would have to be in on it!

Why for the love of god would they risk lifetime banishment.?

And why would the others in the room who weren't in on it say nothing?

What you're describing is full blown RACE FIXING!

Seems unlikely. Especially as often as you're suggesting it takes place.

I am old enough to remember when each one of these five paragraphs were used daily by professional cycling analyst . Then we found out that it was every top rider, team support people , and all their medical professionals involved .

[PaceAdvantage]

You will always have cheats in competitive events...especially when there is money on the line...always

People actually think Secretariat was clean...LMAO

Never mind steroids was well into competitive sports by the 60s...you don't think they were juicing up those TC winners to the hilt in the 70s?

Nah...those guys were all hay and oats, right?

just looking at Secretariat in his prime tells you all you need to know

[dnlgfnk]

I have to laugh at the suspicions aroused in the Hawthorne race. It may be bad optics, and the jockey ought to wait till the wire is crossed, but you're not going to stop the momentum of a half ton animal for two strides without visible restraint or taking up. At minimum, the horse ran on its own courage nearing the wire after surely urged at some point previous.
With that, even to zoom down the stretch for a jockey intent on deceit is worth a chuckle.

[46zilzal]

Losing wagers has a habit of "painting" that loss with what Nicholas Taleb (The Black Swan) would call the "narrative fallacy": altering the actual result to what biased the eye saw.

[Robert Fischer]

Originally Posted by dnlgfnk

I have to laugh at the suspicions aroused in the Hawthorne race. It may be bad optics, and the jockey ought to wait till the wire is crossed, but you're not going to stop the momentum of a half ton animal for two strides without visible restraint or taking up. At minimum, the horse ran on its own courage nearing the wire after surely urged at some point previous.
With that, even to zoom down the stretch for a jockey intent on deceit is worth a chuckle.

I agree.

He should be called in front of the stewards for not riding through the wire.

I don't think he changed the outcome, but I can understand why a bettor would.

[dnlgfnk]

It was the 4th on 11/27. The winner broke poorly, advanced on the backstretch to reach contention vs. a lone leader. Centeno urged Look Away (#6) to run with him, but was clearly passed, and reappears about 70 yds out with Centeno furiously rousing. My guess is he's trying to be fashionable ala the California colony he left, but doesn't have the practice of relieving the horse of undue weight quite down yet, at least in that race.

[MJC922]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

You will always have cheats in competitive events...especially when there is money on the line...always

People actually think Secretariat was clean...LMAO

Never mind steroids was well into competitive sports by the 60s...you don't think they were juicing up those TC winners to the hilt in the 70s?

Nah...those guys were all hay and oats, right?

just looking at Secretariat in his prime tells you all you need to know

Well you said it not me, and yea I've long suspected the same. Never wanted to say it because that tremendous machine is close to a religion at this point, but right down to the over-sized heart ... should make anyone with common sense at least wonder.

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by MJC922

Well you said it not me, and yea I've long suspected the same. Never wanted to say it because that tremendous machine is close to a religion at this point, but right down to the over-sized heart ... should make anyone with common sense at least wonder.

Sometimes I wonder if the sport is cleaner now than it used to be but we are way more aware of and sensitive to the cheating than we used to be. There was certainly cheating going on when I first got into the sport. Figuring out who was probably cheating and looking for trainer changes that didn't come off the claim (not in the DRF in those days) was one of my angles.

[Tom]

We will always have cheats if we keep giving them slaps on the wrist.
Racing just doesn't consider cheating as important as having a cheater keep on entering horses, util it gets so bad they have to react.

Consider a guy in the money room pocketing a couple hunfred bucks.

What would he get, 3 days? 7 days? Yeah, right.
A women at the entry gate pockets a couple of sawbucks to buy gas....7 days?


Irad repeatedly herds horses, puts other riders in danger.....WHAT? But he's a top rider. Nothing to see here. (que ip 3 BlindMice...)

You get the game you allow.

[$w1fT]

Originally Posted by Tom

We will always have cheats if we keep giving them slaps on the wrist.
Racing just doesn't consider cheating as important as having a cheater keep on entering horses, util it gets so bad they have to react.

Consider a guy in the money room pocketing a couple hunfred bucks.

What would he get, 3 days? 7 days? Yeah, right.
A women at the entry gate pockets a couple of sawbucks to buy gas....7 days?


Irad repeatedly herds horses, puts other riders in danger.....WHAT? But he's a top rider. Nothing to see here. (que ip 3 BlindMice...)

You get the game you allow.

It’s so funny to read back the Navarro/Servis thread today (thank you to that poster for bumping it) and realize absolutely nothing has changed.

It will take the FBI to roll up with indictments again because racing will not do anything to hold these people accountable.