Justin Fields or Caleb Williams

[wisconsin]

Count me in the keep Justin Fields camp. He most definitely has not been provided the tools he needs to succeed, and he's better than people think.

Take the haul by trading away #1.

[JustRalph]

Originally Posted by wisconsin

Count me in the keep Justin Fields camp. He most definitely has not been provided the tools he needs to succeed, and he's better than people think.

Take the haul by trading away #1.

I don’t know why they cannot see this.

Fields could use some help. Is an understatement…..

[PhantomOnTour]

Of course I'm a huge fan of Jayden Daniels, but I question whether he will be successful in the NFL.

[ElKabong]

Originally Posted by PalaceOfFortLarned

Simply can't draft Caleb Williams, much less 1st overall. Too many red flags and uncompetitive efforts in his career.

And now this.

https://twitter.com/ProFootballTalk/...33731841683497

Spot on.

[headhawg]

I have watched Fields play as much or more than anyone here. Getsy didn't do him any favors, but Fields has poor field vision and is slow in processing the defense. DAMN slow. That won't be fixed. The Bears should trade him for a 2nd + a 4th to some team desperate for a QB. I love the idea of trading out of the first pick, but then what? You would have to like other QBs as much or more than CW. Who? Mayes? Not a chance. UNC plays no one and his stats aren't great. He just looks the part. But so did Ryan Leaf. Daniels? Maybe. A little thin for a guy who has his running style. Arm is only ok. Accuracy a little questionable, but probably will improve. The rest of the QBs are just guys with big flaws. Would take them with a 2nd round pick but not in the first. Can any of these QBs be a franchise guy? They all can, just look at Brock Purdy. Will one or more be the franchise guy? That's the multi-million dollar question.

I'm not completely sold on Williams. There's this gnawing feeling that he's Bryce Young II or a Matt Leinart type. All hype but crumbles on the big stage. Not a fan of his "management" team either. But his tape looks really good. He's probably not Mahomes, but if he turns out to be a Drew Brees I would be extremely happy to have him on the Bears. Poles' job depends on getting this right. Good luck to him. And Bears fans.

[jimmyb]

Most players hate the combine medical process. Each team brings in their own doctors and each team wants them examined by their own doctors. If 20 teams are interested in a player, thats 20 thorough examinations with all teams doing the same things and asking the same questions. Cant say that I blame anyone for passing on the medical.

[Inner Dirt]

Originally Posted by jimmyb

Most players hate the combine medical process. Each team brings in their own doctors and each team wants them examined by their own doctors. If 20 teams are interested in a player, thats 20 thorough examinations with all teams doing the same things and asking the same questions. Cant say that I blame anyone for passing on the medical.

I hope that doesn't mean 20 prostrate exams.


I actually had a physical for a new job that I did not pass because of my back. The very large company actually had a GP on staff who was female, she was attractive to boot. She asked if I was ok with being examined by a female, she said if not I would have to go to urgent care. I asked her if that was a serious question, and said no problem. She said some men are not comfortable with female doctors. I could not imagine a straight man being comfortable with a dude holding his nuts and then giving him a digital exam with sausage fingers.

[Inner Dirt]

Originally Posted by headhawg

I have watched Fields play as much or more than anyone here. Getsy didn't do him any favors, but Fields has poor field vision and is slow in processing the defense. DAMN slow. That won't be fixed.

Is he slow going through reads? I wonder if anyone has been cured of that issue? I would think it to be near impossible.

[mostpost]

Originally Posted by wisconsin

Count me in the keep Justin Fields camp. He most definitely has not been provided the tools he needs to succeed, and he's better than people think.

Take the haul by trading away #1.

With me, it’s as much about upgrading the receiver corps as anything else. Besides DJ Moore, the Bears wide receivers were subpar.

Marvin Harrison Jr. is a generational talent at WR and the Bears would certainly draft him. Bleacher report has Harrison as the number one talent in the draft. That’s overall, not just among Wide Receivers.

Here is their scouting report.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...-ohio-state-wr

But there is another wide receiver in this draft who may be nearly as good as Harrison and who has a good chance of being available when the Bears pick at nine. That is Rome Odunze. Here’s what Bleacher Report thinks about him.


https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...-washington-wr

Then there’s the fact that you can get a lot more for the number one pick than you can for Fields. I just hope Ryan Poles is as smart as you and me.

[headhawg]

Originally Posted by Inner Dirt

Is he slow going through reads? I wonder if anyone has been cured of that issue? I would think it to be near impossible.

He still plays like a college QB. He can't throw his receivers open. He looks great when they already are, but he doesn't anticipate routes opening up. People say the Oline was bad. It was about average overall. But look at the time-to-throw numbers for Fields. He had one of the highest average time in the pocket of all NFL QBs @2.8 seconds. He can't make decisions quickly enough. Maybe his football IQ is low or he can't see the field well. Maybe both. It's possible that Waldron can make him look better, but you're right about it being near impossible to speed up processing time. He just doesn't have it.

Fields has his supporters but they are blinded by something I don't see. He turns the ball over too much. His 4th quarter stats are pathetic. He gets hurt. Why would I invest in that guy? Next year's QB class is not like this one. Why give Fields another year to be mediocre and also have to decide on picking up his 5th year option? Doesn't make football or financial sense. Start over with a QB on a rookie contract. The top QBs cannot be worse than Fields.

[Inner Dirt]

Originally Posted by headhawg

He still plays like a college QB. He can't throw his receivers open. He looks great when they already are, but he doesn't anticipate routes opening up. People say the Oline was bad. It was about average overall. But look at the time-to-throw numbers for Fields. He had one of the highest average time in the pocket of all NFL QBs @2.8 seconds. He can't make decisions quickly enough. Maybe his football IQ is low or he can't see the field well. Maybe both. It's possible that Waldron can make him look better, but you're right about it being near impossible to speed up processing time. He just doesn't have it.

Fields has his supporters but they are blinded by something I don't see. He turns the ball over too much. His 4th quarter stats are pathetic. He gets hurt. Why would I invest in that guy? Next year's QB class is not like this one. Why give Fields another year to be mediocre and also have to decide on picking up his 5th year option? Doesn't make football or financial sense. Start over with a QB on a rookie contract. The top QBs cannot be worse than Fields.

That was me playing in HS in College, drug free 45 years ago as a college freshman I put up numbers toward the top of the board for linebackers
at the combine today, but I would be undersized at 220# for a linebacker today and a 4.65 forty too slow for a free safety. I had a D1 body and a beginner Pop Warners football players I.Q. that landed me at a D3 school.
The strange thing I had a 3.88 out of 4.0 GPA in HS without even paying attention. I tutored fellow players that struggled in class. The guys on the team I tutored in math, tried working after practice with me. They would get frustrated and say "How can you be so smart in the class room and so dumb on a football field?" I failed at pre snap reads, and often fell for the play action pass. When I played all coaches believed in negative reinforcement, I dreaded watching game film. My only saving grace was my speed and strength that helped make up for my 10 cent brain. What is really odd is I still am a very good driver with great reflexes and road vision. I have lived in the woods and mountains almost half my adult life and even driving like a crazy man back in the day have only hit 1 squirrel.
I knew people that lived in the mountains with long commutes that hit one a week.


I used to get called a racist all the time because I would say Colin Kaepernick had a low football I.Q. and processed what he saw too slowly.
I predicted his downfall before anyone else. For some reason it is much easier to see the field from a couch. Knowing how hard I tried to fix those issues and failed I don't think they are fixable.

[mountainman]

Originally Posted by mostpost

As I’m sure you know, the Chicago Bears have the number one pick in this year’s draft. (From Carolina) They also have the ninth pick. Most of the talking heads on sports radio want them to trade Fields and pick Williams. Bears fans seem to be leaning towards keeping Fields and trading the pick.

I strongly support the second option. Trade the pick to the Commanders for the second pick, the second round pick they sent to the commanders and a first round pick in 2025. With this year’s number two pick draft Wide Receiver Marvin Harrison Jr. With the ninth pick select Rome Odunze. You would have two of the top three receivers in this draft class. And you would have a wide receivers room consisting of DJ Moore, Marvin Harrison Jr., Rome Odunze plus whoever else.

I’d like to hear other opinions on the subject.

I suspect the Bears have made that decision. And it isn't Fields. My beloved Steelers, however, contrary to local punditry, were never going to bust a bold move and deal for Fields. Instead they will stand pat with Kenny Pickett in a division that includes Joe Burrow and Lamar Jackson..etc. Sadly, their other needs are just too pressing to sell out for a QB right now. And that's if a desirable one were even available. 9 and 8, here we come.

[Inner Dirt]

I swear if the Commanders trade up and draft Williams I am going to be livid, the fact some talking heads are mentioning that causes me to lose sleep.

[PalaceOfFortLarned]

The 1st round of the NFL draft is absolutely littered with complete reaches on QBs.

We all know QB is without any question the most important position in the league. Almost impossible to win the Super Bowl without one of the very best in the league. However, with that stipulation, teams have gotten into a ridiculous fever of trying to draft the next Joe Montana, Tom Brady, and now Patrick Mahomes.

This is a list of the QBs taken in the 1st round this century. It is absolutely littered with reaches, busts, and complete train wrecks.

2000: 18th Chad Pennington
2001: 1st Michael Vick
2002: 1st David Carr, 3rd Joey Harrington, 32nd Patrick Ramsey
2003: 1st Carson Palmer, 7th Byron Leftwich, 19th Kyle Boller, 22nd Rex Grossman
2004: 1st Eli Manning, 4th Phillip Rivers, 11th Ben Roethlisberger, 22nd JP Losman
2005: 1st Alex Smith, 24th Aaron Rodgers, 25th Jason Campbell
2006: 3rd Vince Young, 10th Matt Leinart, 11th Jay Cutler
2007: 1st Jamarcus Russell, 22nd Brady Quinn
2008: 3rd Matt Ryan, 18th Joe Flacco
2009: 1st Matt Stafford, 5th Mark Sanchez, 17th Josh Freeman
2010: 1st Sam Bradford, 25th Tim Tebow
2011: 1st Cam Newton, 8th Jake Locker, 10th Blaine Gabbert, 12th Christian Ponder
2012: 1st Andrew Luck, 2nd Robert Griffin III, 8th Ryan Tannehill, 22nd Brandon Weeden
2013: 16th EJ Manuel
2014: 3rd Blake Bortles, 22nd Johnny Manziel, 32nd Teddy Bridgewater
2015: 1st Jameis Winston, 2nd Marcus Mariota
2016: 1st Jared Goff, 2nd Carson Wentz, 26th Paxton Lynch
2017: 2nd Mitchell Trubisky, 10th Patrick Mahomes, 12th Deshaun Watson
2018: 1st Baker Mayfield, 3rd Sam Darnold, 7th Josh Allen, 10th Josh Rosen, 32nd Lamar Jackson
2019: 1st Kyler Murray, 6th Daniel Jones, 15th Dwayne Haskins
2020: 1st Joe Burrow, 5th Tua Tagovailova, 6th Justin Herbert, 26th Jordan Love
2021: 1st Trevor Lawrence, 2nd Zach Wilson, 3rd Trey Lance, 11th Justin Fields, 15th Mac Jones
2022: 20th Kenny Pickett
2023: 1st Bryce Young, 2nd CJ Stroud, 4th Anthony Richardson

When you look through this list, we aren't even talking about a 20% hit rate for such a massive investment.

Also, GMs should be doing everything they can to see who the Browns, Cardinals, Commanders, and Jets have as their 'top' QBs and avoid them like the plague.

And the organization that has completely whiffed as of late in drafting QBs now has the 1st pick. The very last thing the Bears should be doing is drafting a QB #1 overall. Trade down, build the roster and get some talent around a young QB you drafted just 3 years ago and give him a chance. This is a bad QB draft IMO, similar to the 2019 draft where teams desperately reached.

[PalaceOfFortLarned]

Originally Posted by mountainman

I suspect the Bears have made that decision. And it isn't Fields. My beloved Steelers, however, contrary to local punditry, were never going to bust a bold move and deal for Fields. Instead they will stand pat with Kenny Pickett in a division that includes Joe Burrow and Lamar Jackson..etc. Sadly, their other needs are just too pressing to sell out for a QB right now. And that's if a desirable one were even available. 9 and 8, here we come.

The NFL is hard. Steelers used to be the very best at roster management when they had Roethlisberger at QB. They were able to build both sides of the ball with a 10+ year great at the all important QB position. Every year Super Bowl contenders, and won a couple with Ben.

That talent has now depleted, and the Steelers are now in complete rebuild mode. They used to be masters of the draft, and haven't hit on many the last several years. It is not a good roster right now, and difficult to trade and accumulate draft picks to get younger and better.

Not Tomlinson's fault. He is a great coach. The brass in upper management and the GM are at fault. They have completely failed the last 5+ years.