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Old 07-09-2023, 12:49 AM   #1
eldee wins
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Prairie Meadows Race 9 wager on the trifecta should be investigated!!!

[ATTACH]IMG_0258.jpg[/ATTACH]. Race 9 Prairie Meadows, the winner was How did he do that at 48-1, 2nd was 7-1 and 3rd horse 37-1, exacta came back $978 for $2. The Trifecta which I cashed for .50 cents came back $688, the winner was the 2nd longest shot in the in the race of 11 horses. The 2nd horse was 4th choice, the 3rd horse was 7th choice.
Bo Cruz the favorite had about 35% of the win pool and finished out of the money. The raced finished in a deadheat between 1 and 4, after a very long delay the 1 was disqualified. It was like the wager on the trifecta remained open. For me,it was the worst payoff in a trifecta,with those odds,in a big field, I ever seen in 46 years of wagering on the horses!!!🤬🤬🤬 investigate!

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Old 07-09-2023, 12:50 AM   #2
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This triple should’ve paid $9000! 🤬🤬🤬🤬
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Old 07-09-2023, 01:08 AM   #3
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There was $51,000 in the trifecta pool, it paid $1377. Almost 40 $1 tickets with including two of the longest shots in the race 44-1 on top, 7-1 2nd and 37-1 3rd. Bullshit!!!
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Old 07-09-2023, 08:32 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by eldee wins View Post
There was $51,000 in the trifecta pool, it paid $1377. Almost 40 $1 tickets with including two of the longest shots in the race 44-1 on top, 7-1 2nd and 37-1 3rd. Bullshit!!!
One contributing factor - only a factor, not an explanation - that I could see is a 40+ to 1 Asmussen and/or a 20+ to 1 Diodoro (a horse that took some late money) showing up in a LOT more trifecta boxes and keys than those priced horses from run-of-the-mill trainers.

Also, with the 20% takeout on the pool, I get about 29 1/2 $1 tickets rather than almost 40.

Neither of those things is going to make you feel any better about it, though!
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Old 07-09-2023, 08:33 AM   #5
king kong
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P.M. payoff

That stinks to high heaven
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Old 07-09-2023, 10:31 AM   #6
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You’re right, I forgot, the take out and maybe,to add smaller pool, compare to bigger pools at major tracks. As far as asmussen , and he had two horses in the race, the other horse seemed more like a contender. I used the 4 horse because I thought he would be the biggest closer in the race. Oh well, it’s a winner. I almost lost the race.
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Old 07-09-2023, 10:45 AM   #7
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this has been a significant problem now for the past 10 years. but let me tell you, this example hits you right between your eyes, but this is currently happening in some tracks quite blatantly in place and show pools.

not being able to change things now at city hall has forced me to back off the game. i really wonder how many others see it the same way?
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Old 07-09-2023, 12:50 PM   #8
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Inside three post positions on a track that favored the inside last night, imo. Superfecta was the four inside posts. Still did seem light though.
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Old 07-09-2023, 01:57 PM   #9
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It’s so baffling, the top three betting choices did not crack the top 3 in the trifecta.🤔
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Old 07-09-2023, 02:49 PM   #10
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PRM 07-08-2023 R9 The Iowa Derby
Screenshot of SQL Html Report generated by JCapper Silver using V4 HDW Data


The horses on the report are sorted by UPR or Silver Rating (the default power rating generated by an algorithm hard coded into the program.)

I've drawn a Contender Line bisecting the field (controlled by user defined settings.)

Horses above the line are considered 'contenders' or possible 'keys.' (Horses below the line aren't.)

There's a ticket structure strategy for vertical exotics used by some sharp players.

It's not the optimal strategy for vertical exotics. It's more of a shortcut.

Because it's a shortcut, and because the biggest handle volume whale teams use a more optimal/targeted approach to vertical exotics ticket structure, the shortcut itself has seen incrementally lower returns the past several years vs. returns that were available when I first started using it.

That said, it still works reasonably well in races with big fields, and Imo may explain why the trifecta returned less than most players would think.

Take a look at the contenders (the six horses on the report above the contender line.)

Two of the six contenders in this race went off at odds greater than the oddsline on the report:
Code:
Horse                      OL   ODDS
----------------------  -----  -----
#1 ONE IN VERMILLION     4.70   7.20
#3 HEROIC MOVE          15.70  21.20
These would be theoretical overlays or 'keys.'

The strategy involves part wheeling a 'key' with 'logical contenders.'

The thinking behind this is: If a horse is a win overlay then it's probably an overlay in the vertical exotics too.

If you define 'logical 'contenders' as horses above the contender line, ticket structure for the two keys would look something like this:
$0.50 Tri Part Wheel 1/6,8,3,5,12 cost $30.00
$0.50 Tri Part Wheel 3/6,1,8,5,12 cost $30.00

And the player who did this would have spent $60.00 to come up empty.

But if you define 'logical contenders' as horses above the contender line plus one, ticket structure for the two keys would look something like this:
$0.50 Tri Part Wheel 1/6,8,3,5,12,4 cost $45.00
$0.50 Tri Part Wheel 3/6,1,8,5,12,4 cost $45.00

The player who went one horse deeper would have spent $90.00 to have the tri twice.

If you define 'logical contenders' as horses above the contender line plus one, and if you decide (based on preference, sort order, track bias, or odds) that #1 ONE IN VERMILLION is a stronger key (and therefore more likely to be in the tri) than #3 HEROIC MOVE, ticket structure for the two keys might look something like this:
$0.50 Tri Part Wheel 1/6,8,3,5,12,4 cost $45.00
$0.50 Tri Part Wheel 1/6,8,3,5,12,4 cost $45.00
$0.50 Tri Part Wheel 3/6,1,8,5,12,4 cost $45.00

The player who went one horse deeper and who saw the #1 as the stronger key would have spent $135.00 to have the tri three times.

Of course, each race is different.

Over time, success or failure betting vertical exotics is shaped by bankroll size relative to expected/acceptable drawdowns, decisions made about "How deep do you go?", "How many keys to use?", and "Which horses if any are the stronger keys?"

Of course answers to questions like that only become known through continual r&d, compiling data, modeling the data, testing, and record keeping, etc.

I want to emphasize this absolutely IS a continual ongoing process. And the size of bankroll drawdowns that can happen if you play vertical exotics this way can be much larger than you think.

Imo, whale teams with deeper pockets, bigger bankrolls, algorithms that do a much better job of generating accurate preference order, oddslines, and optimal/targeted ticket structure could easily land a LOT more money on the winning trifecta combination than what I'm illustrating here.


-jp

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Last edited by Jeff P; 07-09-2023 at 03:03 PM.
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Old 07-09-2023, 03:17 PM   #11
castaway01
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Originally Posted by eldee wins View Post
It’s so baffling, the top three betting choices did not crack the top 3 in the trifecta.🤔
I will say, you legit got screwed. It might not be cheating, it might be bad luck, it might be whatever, but damn, you should have gotten thousands more than you did. My condolences brother.
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Old 07-09-2023, 03:22 PM   #12
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What stinks even more is the $.10 Super paid $2,377.77 with a very logical 9/2 in the 4 hole.

With the EX and Super payouts, the Trifecta payout makes zero sense. Either a CAW hammered it or a person or two took down 1/2 to 2/3rds of the TRI pool.
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Old 07-09-2023, 03:44 PM   #13
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If I had to guess I would say multiple whales had the #1 as their stronger key and ended up betting multiple $20.00 or $30.00 base wager size tickets on the winning trifecta combo - each whale thinking they would be the only one.

Also possible some whale who's not allowed to cancel submitted much larger base wager tickets by mistake.

Odd though there's such a divergence in payoffs between the tri and the super.


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Last edited by Jeff P; 07-09-2023 at 03:54 PM.
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Old 07-09-2023, 04:16 PM   #14
PalaceOfFortLarned
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Originally Posted by Jeff P View Post
If I had to guess I would say multiple whales had the #1 as their stronger key and ended up betting multiple $20.00 or $30.00 base wager size tickets on the winning trifecta combo - each whale thinking they would be the only one.

Also possible some whale who's not allowed to cancel submitted much larger base wager tickets by mistake.

Odd though there's such a divergence in payoffs between the tri and the super.


-jp

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Agree, if you are pounding the Tri like that, why not a Super with an ALL on the bottom as well?
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Old 07-09-2023, 04:33 PM   #15
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If this was a game where integrity mattered, there would surely be an investigation and some reasonable explanation given for this scandalously low trifecta payoff. But since this is horse racing...no one of "authority" will give this a second thought.
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