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View Poll Results: Who wins HOY? Accelerate or Justify?
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Accelerate wins HOY
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119 |
42.35% |
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Justify wins HOY
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162 |
57.65% |
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12-24-2018, 03:56 PM
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#361
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 28,570
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dilanesp
It's a metaphor....
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Oh...okay then. 
__________________
"Theory is knowledge that doesn't work. Practice is when everything works and you don't know why."
-- Hermann Hesse
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12-24-2018, 04:49 PM
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#362
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Flint Hills
Posts: 474
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"The TC isn't any different from other horse races. Horses simply fail to fire sometimes. They have bad trips. They get cooked on the pace. They are still maturing."
The above by dilinesp is a fact in horse racing, for the best and all the rest. It has long bothered me the import accorded to certain races. The Kentucky Derby winner is automatically included in the Chef De Race stallion category. Think what an impact on breeding that designation has. Winning all 3 TC races has the effect of qualifying a horse for elite status, so there's that. Still, that is 3 races over a period of a couple months. Seems inconsiderate to me that could negate whatever another horse might have accomplished over the period of an entire year of racing.
I hold nothing against Justify. He did a magnificent job meeting and beating the challenge he faced. But why didn't he run the BC Classic? Or the Pegasus?
I doubt it was due to worry about injury to his health as much as they were worried about injury to his W/L record.
I would cast my vote having taken into account more factors than just a 3 race spree,including an examination of lifetime "medication" records.
These awards are for people's ego, not the horses.
__________________
"Better to do little well than more poorly." Appy
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12-24-2018, 09:03 PM
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#363
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Palm Beach, Florida
Posts: 2,465
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Appy
"The TC isn't any different from other horse races. Horses simply fail to fire sometimes. They have bad trips. They get cooked on the pace. They are still maturing."
The above by dilinesp is a fact in horse racing, for the best and all the rest. It has long bothered me the import accorded to certain races. The Kentucky Derby winner is automatically included in the Chef De Race stallion category. Think what an impact on breeding that designation has. Winning all 3 TC races has the effect of qualifying a horse for elite status, so there's that. Still, that is 3 races over a period of a couple months. Seems inconsiderate to me that could negate whatever another horse might have accomplished over the period of an entire year of racing.
I hold nothing against Justify. He did a magnificent job meeting and beating the challenge he faced. But why didn't he run the BC Classic? Or the Pegasus?
I doubt it was due to worry about injury to his health as much as they were worried about injury to his W/L record.
I would cast my vote having taken into account more factors than just a 3 race spree,including an examination of lifetime "medication" records.
These awards are for people's ego, not the horses.
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Some good points though the Pegasus is run in Jan. 2019 and would not count in the 2018 Eclipse Awards. Even if Justify was retired for legitimate injury reasons, shouldn't the voters consider the ability to remain sound long enough to run in the BC Classic as a big plus. Otherwise, the industry is just playing lip service to wanting to breed sounder horses that can last through a season.
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12-24-2018, 10:24 PM
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#364
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Smarty Pants
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Every Vote Counts
Posts: 3,160
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Here's another question, does the Breeders' Cup Classic winner automatically win Horse of the Year or not?
Does an undefeated Triple Crown Winner?
No and no, we'll find out on January 24th.
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12-26-2018, 12:58 PM
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#365
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 28,570
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckeye
Here's another question, does the Breeders' Cup Classic winner automatically win Horse of the Year or not?
Does an undefeated Triple Crown Winner?
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The undefeated Triple Crown winners are extremely rare...whereas we have a BC Classic winner every year.
__________________
"Theory is knowledge that doesn't work. Practice is when everything works and you don't know why."
-- Hermann Hesse
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12-26-2018, 03:59 PM
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#366
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,798
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thaskalos
The undefeated Triple Crown winners are extremely rare...whereas we have a BC Classic winner every year.
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We shouldn't talk about a horse who has just 6 starts as "undefeated".
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12-26-2018, 05:14 PM
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#367
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The Voice of Reason!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
Posts: 112,889
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Undefeated TC winners are very rare.
Those are not your everyday races to be undefeated in.
It is half the year.
Try to keep it relevant.
The BC Classic is one race.
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12-26-2018, 07:23 PM
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#368
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Smarty Pants
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Every Vote Counts
Posts: 3,160
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Ok, let's not compare Seattle Slew to Justify.
Justify is undefeated and a Triple Crown winner and Seattle Slew is not.
These are the facts.
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12-26-2018, 10:17 PM
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#369
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GARY
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,339
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horse of the Year
The Triple Crown winner deserves HOY based upon the difficult challenges
of running at three different tracks at different distances within a condensed
time frame.
We all know Justify did not race as a two-year-old, which highlights
his unique ability which quite likely will not be repeated in our lifetime.
I still respect Accelerate and his achievements, but I have to believe
Justify will easily win this coveted award.
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12-26-2018, 10:32 PM
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#370
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,798
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NY BRED
The Triple Crown winner deserves HOY based upon the difficult challenges
of running at three different tracks at different distances within a condensed
time frame.
We all know Justify did not race as a two-year-old, which highlights
his unique ability which quite likely will not be repeated in our lifetime.
I still respect Accelerate and his achievements, but I have to believe
Justify will easily win this coveted award.
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You ate giving Justify credit for NOT running in races, and claiming that makes him better.
That's preposterous.
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12-26-2018, 10:44 PM
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#371
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Baystater
Posts: 3,496
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Justify reminds me of two time Heisman Trophy winner, Archie Griffin. Voted as the Sporting News man of the year in 1975, played in Four Rose Bowls yet sucked as a pro.
Rushed for 100 yards or more in only three games of a seven year pro career and failed to record a 700-yard season.
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12-26-2018, 11:03 PM
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#372
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,798
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One of the horses Accelerate buried, McKinzie, just won the Malibu.
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12-26-2018, 11:30 PM
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#373
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Buckle Up
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 10,614
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dilanesp
One of the horses Accelerate buried, McKinzie, just won the Malibu.
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McKinzie's performance in the BC was clearly out of sorts for a horse of his caliber.....Don't know what went wrong, as he never threw in a clunker before, his only loss was less than a length prior to the BC... 
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12-27-2018, 09:38 AM
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#374
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Queens, NY
Posts: 20,625
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dilanesp
One of the horses Accelerate buried, McKinzie, just won the Malibu.
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I'm not sure if it was in this thread or one of the ones on speed figures, but I argued that the Classic field was not a strong group, but it was better than the 105 speed figure it earned.
I thought that CD was tiring that day. The Classic was at 10F and the fractions were pretty lively. I thought the race kind of fell part and came up slow because of the conditions and the way it developed and not just because the horses also happened to be a bit subpar.
Some pretty good horses got killed in that race. Among them was McKinzie who was up on the pace and got tired. His performance yesterday reinforces that view. I'm not sure where Accelerate is in his form cycle and what's going to come next, but I think he was a bit better than a Grade 2 "105 horse" that day.
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"Unlearning is the highest form of learning"
Last edited by classhandicapper; 12-27-2018 at 09:44 AM.
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12-27-2018, 10:20 AM
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#375
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The Voice of Reason!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
Posts: 112,889
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dilanesp
One of the horses Accelerate buried, McKinzie, just won the Malibu.
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You are suggesting the McKenzie's BC effort was a true test of his ability? 
He was a short horse for that distance and older horses.
McKenzie couldn't even make it to Justify's Derby and he is a 3yo.
THAT is what you are using to brag up Accelerate?
Justify is not a HOY because he ran against "restricticted? company, but beat them all, and to prove it, ACC beat another 3yo who could not beat older?
You give credit for failing against better?
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