Why do you really oppose a wall?

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by elysiantraveller

It only takes a few...

If it was me I would be pissed. Land is a pretty sacred thing amongst the Right in this country.

xtb gave a very reasonable and intelligent response to this issue. I didn't think you had it in you to find a way to counter, but you did.

Bravo...now...if you can only prove him actually WRONG.

[Clocker]

Originally Posted by xtb

No land will need to be "seized" from anyone along the border. The Roosevelt Reservation of 1907 preserves 60 ft. of land along the US side of the border, it is effectively an easement.

As has been shown in these threads several times, the wall is often being planned to be built a mile or more in from the border. That can entail taking much or all of a ranch or farm.

[Clocker]

Originally Posted by Tom

So you just dismiss the opinions of the people putting their lives on the line on the border as some kind political hacks looking to pad their budgets?

Nice distortion. I seriously doubt that the bureaucrats that run the Border Patrol are putting their lives on the line.

[elysiantraveller]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

xtb gave a very reasonable and intelligent response to this issue. I didn't think you had it in you to find a way to counter, but you did.

Bravo...now...if you can only prove him actually WRONG.

Not really.

I linked an article to just one such family. The Bundy thing was ironic because it was reversed and he was using Federal Lands. That was the irony part I was referring to...

This is literally Army Corps of Engineers showing up on your property. Declaring Eminent Domain and proceeding to construct a wall. In some cases directly through your property like the article I posted.

Its very easy to comment on how someone should "feel" about something when it doesn't effect them. A large chunk of my property has been in the family for over 100 years... we even have one of these cool signs:



Having those rights stripped away from you is a big deal. People would make noise and it would get a lot of national attention.

[chadk66]

Originally Posted by elysiantraveller

Its been mentioned that along the Rio Grande several places where wall is being built is being done so on land outside of easement areas...

Here is one example:

Trump’s border wall threatens to end Texas family’s 250 years of ranching on Rio Grande

Now I'm sure some people will be fine with a wall... others won't... their objections though aren't irrelevant.

start elsewhere and by the time we get there the issue will be resolved. this is a perfect example of the reason eminent domain was established.

[elysiantraveller]

Originally Posted by chadk66

start elsewhere and by the time we get there the issue will be resolved. this is a perfect example of the reason eminent domain was established.

A possibility but it still would take years through the courts... even then it only takes one ruling.

It's also the way its done though.. the Federal Government has a much stronger case when its a law passed by all Chambers... its a lot weaker when it only has the backing of the executive branch.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by Clocker

Nice distortion. I seriously doubt that the bureaucrats that run the Border Patrol are putting their lives on the line.

But you do assume they do not support the wall for legitimate reasons and only for $$$. And you do assume it only the bc's making the support statements.

[formula_2002]

Originally Posted by wisconsin

Go back and watch the video I posted. Parts of this wall are already under construction. That will answer all of your concerns regarding plans and specs.

they are replacing and upgrading an existing "wall". now new wall here.
seems they are changing from a vehicle barrier to what appears to be a pedestrian barrier.

Trump has a video suggesting how to get around walls

US border authorities say replacing a 20-mile stretch of old vehicle barriers along the U.S.-Mexico border in southern New Mexico will help to curb illegal crossings and drug trafficking.

[wisconsin]

Originally Posted by formula_2002

they are replacing and upgrading an existing "wall". now new wall here.
seems they are changing from a vehicle barrier to what appears to be a pedestrian barrier.

Trump has a video suggesting how to get around walls

US border authorities say replacing a 20-mile stretch of old vehicle barriers along the U.S.-Mexico border in southern New Mexico will help to curb illegal crossings and drug trafficking.

The point was that is the wall spec you were seeking.

[Clocker]

Originally Posted by Tom

But you do assume they do not support the wall for legitimate reasons and only for $$$. And you do assume it only the bc's making the support statements.

You are missing my point, or I am not making it clear. If you ask anyone at the Border Patrol if they need more money, they will say yes. If you ask anyone at the Border Patrol if a given amount of money would be most effective if used by the Border Patrol or for other methods of stopping illegals, such as stronger enforcement of visas or of e-verify, they would say the BP would make much more efficient use of the money. The response is knee-jerk.

My point is that I strongly distrust the objectivity of any government agency without good evidence. And since the big majority of illegals don't come in over the southern border, Trump's 100% focus on it is questionable.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by Clocker

And since the big majority of illegals don't come in over the southern border, Trump's 100% focus on it is questionable.

Where do the big majority of illegals + drugs come over?

[Clocker]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

Where do the big majority of illegals + drugs come over?

The majority of illegals living in this country enter legally and over-stay their visas. I have posted links to this data here several times, but don't have it handy at the moment. The official number used to be 55%. The number of illegals coming across the southern border has been declining for many years. That means that as the total number of illegals entering each year may be steady or declining, the percentage of illegals who originally enter legally is going up. I have seen unofficial estimates as high as 75%.

Drug runners don't get stopped by border barriers. They smuggle it in through regular check points, use boats or planes, tunnel under the southern border, etc.

[chiguy]

The majority come through normal points of entry.



I mentioned eminent domain earlier in this thread but hesitated to post the link to this article because well...left paper and all.



https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...=.fe5a2c98ed24

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by Clocker

The majority of illegals living in this country enter legally and over-stay their visas. I have posted links to this data here several times, but don't have it handy at the moment. The official number used to be 55%. The number of illegals coming across the southern border has been declining for many years. That means that as the total number of illegals entering each year may be steady or declining, the percentage of illegals who originally enter legally is going up. I have seen unofficial estimates as high as 75%.

Drug runners don't get stopped by border barriers. They smuggle it in through regular check points, use boats or planes, tunnel under the southern border, etc.

So why are we wasting all this time arguing about this? Why is the gov't shut down over this? Why are we looking to spend 25B on this?

Surely, given the above, any argument in favor of the wall should fall flat on its face. Nothing Donald Trump could say or do could overcome what you just posted, correct?

[Burls]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

So why are we wasting all this time arguing about this? Why is the gov't shut down over this? Why are we looking to spend 25B on this?

Surely, given the above, any argument in favor of the wall should fall flat on its face. Nothing Donald Trump could say or do could overcome what you just posted, correct?

What you say is entirely correct here, PA.
But Drumph doesn't want to give up on the wall because he doesn't want to lose face in front of the cool kids, Rush and Anne.
Pretty pathetic?
I think so.