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Old 11-30-2010, 11:32 PM   #1
Market Mover
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YOUBET VS. TWINSPIRES GLARING DISCREPANCIES IN DEPOSITS AND WITHDRAWALS TIME

YOUBET VS. TWINSPIRES GLARING DISCREPANCIES IN DEPOSITS AND WITHDRAWALS TIME
Quote:
Originally Posted by hbeck
NYRA Rewards debits and credits funds with a one business day delay generally.

For example, a withdrawal on Sunday hits your account on Tuesday.

A withdrawal on Tuesday hits your account on Thursday.

The exception is a Saturday withdrawal, which hits your account on Monday (zero business days).



To show you the glaring differences between these two ADW's, please consider the previous major player, Youbet, and it's previously intact policies and turnaround times for deposits and withdrawals.

For those of us living in the east coast (since Youbet's hub is in Oregon and business day transaction delay to the East coast banks have to be taken into consideration), when deposits were made on a weekday, it would reflect or deducted from one's bank account one business day later. For example, making an ExpressCash deposit on a Wednesday would mean that deposit amount would be subtracted from one's bank on Friday.
The exception is Saturday deposits would be subtracted on Monday, and Sunday deposits would be subtracted on Tuesday.

As for withdrawals from one's Youbet wagering account, it would usually take two business days to post to one's bank account. For example, withdrawals requested on Monday would be processed Tuesday and how up in one's bank account on Thursday. Withdrawals on Wednesday would still follow that two business day rule, and would be "processed" on Thursday, thereby showing up in one's bank account on Monday. The exception would be Saturday and Sunday withdrawals, which would be processed the next business day, Monday, and then post to one's account on Wednesday.

This seemed easy enough to understand and comprehend, for those high volume clients who pour that churn back into the pools and keep this revolving cycle going week after week.

Enter Twin Spires. The platform called EZ Money is equivalent to what was known as ExpressCash for Youbet patrons. But upon a closer evaluation, per TwinSpires faq's, you will notice there is a five day administrative hold on all deposits.
So in order to make a withdrawal from what you have in your account balance, you must look at the second balance titled "your current funds available for withdrawal." This amount would be different from "your current account balance" if you had used EZ Money in the last five business days as a deposit method.

Since TwinSpires' hub is still in Oregon, correct me if I'm wrong on this line of thought:

If I log into TwinSpires and deposit 2000 to play on a Saturday. And at the end of the day, I try to withdraw what is remaining in my account balance but find that I cannot because I have to wait til the 2000 "administrative hold" period clears? That's 5 business days, meaning at EARLIEST, I would be able to attempt to withdraw funds on the following Friday. Twin Spires says on the website that 3 to 5 business days would be required to post the withdrawal funds to my bank account. So this means from the time I make a deposit (Saturday), to the time I can initiate a withdrawal (Friday), to the time it takes for the money to reach my bank account (the following Wednesday or Thursday at earliest), 11 or 12 calendar days would past?

Who would do business like this?

In the kind and specific example of NYRA Rewards deposits and withdrawals turnaround time as I had quoted Hbeck above, you could see how there is such a large discrepancy between the two ADW's. Could someone who has gone through the deposit and withdrawal period with Twin Spires please post their specific experiences with this (which day you initiated the deposit, which day you were allowed to withdraw, and when exactly your money showed up in your back account assuming you are on the East Coast).

This is absolutely amazing, that this ADW could be so quick to withdraw funds from one's linked checking account, and yet take so long to post winnings back into one's checking account. Is it by design? Is this the policy so more of the winnings are forced to be left in one's Twinspires account so the bettor can be encouraged to proceed and play against the winnings?

It just leaves a bad taste. A very bad taste. Can anyone verify similar approaches by other ADW's? Please be as specific as possible in terms of days deposits clear and withdrawals clear. So far it looks like NYRA REWARDS has the quickest turnaround time. Most would agree this is important information for both high and low volume bettors
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Old 12-01-2010, 12:52 AM   #2
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Its instantaneous when you deposit into TS. But it does take awhile to get funds. I did good on Thanksgiving day so I made a withdrawal. That was the 25th. I have an online banking account separate from my main account,just for horse racing and credit cards. I did see the withdrawal "pending" in my account on Sunday the 28th. It did not get finalized till yesterday the 29th. But the good thing with TS is that they do pay you as opposed to some shady off shore account.I'm not sure about your other question regarding a waiting period to verify incoming funds to TS. Can't remember if I hit something right after making a deposit and had to wait twice as long to get my money.

That being said, TS still sucks compared to Youbet's interface.Can hardly read the conditions or what bets are offered in a particular race. Can hardly read the results of all the types of bets in a race. Sometimes have to go to a Bris chart which is not completed for awhile just to find the results of more obscure bets like the place pick all. Jesus! Another problem is they don't have the Turfday stats that Youbet offered. That was a great tool. Plus,if I want to research how a horse did in its subsequent start you have to know what day and track he ran at. It won't work by name only as it did with Youbet. Well Hello!,that's the reason I'm looking up the horse by name to see what track and date he has run at. Doh! Their "will pays" are not always available, so I cant tell if its worth hedging my bet when I'm alive at the end of a serial bet. I'm starting to have problems with their video not starting right away and having to refresh it. By that time the race is half over. I could go on but I am hoping they give a little more respect to their customers after they complete the Youbet people transfer. It's a crime that they don't give rebates for all the betting we do. It would be nice if they gave something back to the bettors. And yes, they could start with speedier withdrawals and all of the above.
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Old 12-01-2010, 01:14 AM   #3
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they do give a rebate,

THE REBATE IS SMALL BIT IT IS THERE.

I believe it is two points for every dollar wagered at most tracks and double that for CDI run tracks. When 10,000 points accumulate, you can have Ten Dollars added to your account by requesting that, or use the points accumulated to purchase gifts from them. Big betters would get points pretty fast, its hardly a pittance the way I wager but I did turn my points in twice last year. FYI
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ps once you log in theres a blue area bout a third of the way down click on tsi rewards and follow the links there some of you may be able to get some money back into your account, maybe this is a pleasant surprise to some of you! REPORT BACK if you do!

an aside...I just checked mine...I have 4331 points that is worth $4.33 but you cant take the credit in amounts less than $10.00 Comprende?

Last edited by senortout; 12-01-2010 at 01:17 AM.
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Old 12-01-2010, 01:39 AM   #4
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I live on the west coast. and I never have the problem you mention. when I deposit into my account it is available immediately with no hold on it. I have made numerous withdrawals and i have either gotten the money credited and available in my account within 2 days. Often the next day. Did you fill out their form ? Also, it seems to work a lot faster if you had sent them a voided check.
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Old 12-01-2010, 01:41 AM   #5
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I forgot to mention. I have accounts on both. yes the interface on you bet seems to be better. but I used twinspires longer and I used to it. The thing I really hated was that youbet charge to make a deposit thru ACH. twinspires do not.
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Old 12-01-2010, 01:45 AM   #6
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Oh I should read more carefully. what happen when you make a deposit from your bank account into twinspires. Twinspires usually do not with draw the money from your account until the next day. I think on one occasion two days. So when you try to withdraw the same day as you deposit, Twinspires would not have time to withdraw the money from your bank account yet.
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Old 12-01-2010, 03:24 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Light
Its instantaneous when you deposit into TS. But it does take awhile to get funds. I did good on Thanksgiving day so I made a withdrawal. That was the 25th. I have an online banking account separate from my main account,just for horse racing and credit cards. I did see the withdrawal "pending" in my account on Sunday the 28th. It did not get finalized till yesterday the 29th. But the good thing with TS is that they do pay you as opposed to some shady off shore account.I'm not sure about your other question regarding a waiting period to verify incoming funds to TS. Can't remember if I hit something right after making a deposit and had to wait twice as long to get my money.

That being said, TS still sucks compared to Youbet's interface.Can hardly read the conditions or what bets are offered in a particular race. Can hardly read the results of all the types of bets in a race. Sometimes have to go to a Bris chart which is not completed for awhile just to find the results of more obscure bets like the place pick all. Jesus! Another problem is they don't have the Turfday stats that Youbet offered. That was a great tool. Plus,if I want to research how a horse did in its subsequent start you have to know what day and track he ran at. It won't work by name only as it did with Youbet. Well Hello!,that's the reason I'm looking up the horse by name to see what track and date he has run at. Doh! Their "will pays" are not always available, so I cant tell if its worth hedging my bet when I'm alive at the end of a serial bet. I'm starting to have problems with their video not starting right away and having to refresh it. By that time the race is half over. I could go on but I am hoping they give a little more respect to their customers after they complete the Youbet people transfer. It's a crime that they don't give rebates for all the betting we do. It would be nice if they gave something back to the bettors. And yes, they could start with speedier withdrawals and all of the above.
Thanks for being specific with the comments. Ok so it looks like your withdrawal on a holiday, Thanksgiving, was probably processed on a regular business day Friday, and then finally posting to your account as finalized and available on the 29th, a Monday.
Could you or someone verify that this is correct? That deposits made are not subject to an administrative hold and that winnings can be withdrawn immediately for processing. If this is true, then two business days is what we're looking at? The Twinspires website says 3 to 5.

Yes, the rebate points from Youbet was consistently accurate. With Twinspires, it doesn't look like any points are accumulating!
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Old 12-01-2010, 03:30 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rycommon
I live on the west coast. and I never have the problem you mention. when I deposit into my account it is available immediately with no hold on it. I have made numerous withdrawals and i have either gotten the money credited and available in my account within 2 days. Often the next day. Did you fill out their form ? Also, it seems to work a lot faster if you had sent them a voided check.

Yes, forms have been filled out and voided check sent and received, as it was with youbet previously. Nothing has changed from my youbet setup, and it appears that this information was carried over properly.

2 business days for withdrawals on the west coast? From the previous poster, that looks like the case as well. I'm on the east coast so it may take another business day. But could someone verify this? That if I made a large depo, let's say 2500 for even a show wager (i'm not a show player), that if I win 2625 the very next race and I want to withdraw that entire amount, that this would be possible and there is no "administrative hold" as per Twinspires website...

Please post examples of exact deposits of what day and exact withdrawals, date requested and date it showed up in your bank.
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Old 12-01-2010, 05:00 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by senortout
THE REBATE IS SMALL BIT IT IS THERE.

I believe it is two points for every dollar wagered at most tracks and double that for CDI run tracks. When 10,000 points accumulate, you can have Ten Dollars added to your account by requesting that, or use the points accumulated to purchase gifts from them. Big betters would get points pretty fast, its hardly a pittance the way I wager but I did turn my points in twice last year. FYI
senortout

ps once you log in theres a blue area bout a third of the way down click on tsi rewards and follow the links there some of you may be able to get some money back into your account, maybe this is a pleasant surprise to some of you! REPORT BACK if you do!

an aside...I just checked mine...I have 4331 points that is worth $4.33 but you cant take the credit in amounts less than $10.00 Comprende?
So if my math is right, they give a .2% rebate. Not 2%, but .2%. For every dollar you bet, you get back .002$. Bet $5,000, get back $10.

Compare that to any rebate shop(which is also legally licensed in Oregon, I'm not taking about offshores) and I don't see why anyone that has alternatives available would continue to play there. Residents of some states have no choice, and that needs to change, but anyone with a choice should move somewhere with rebates.
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Old 12-01-2010, 05:08 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charli125
So if my math is right, they give a .2% rebate. Not 2%, but .2%. For every dollar you bet, you get back .002$. Bet $5,000, get back $10.

Compare that to any rebate shop(which is also legally licensed in Oregon, I'm not taking about offshores) and I don't see why anyone that has alternatives available would continue to play there. Residents of some states have no choice, and that needs to change, but anyone with a choice should move somewhere with rebates.

That's not a rebate. That's an insult. 0.2%? Really??? Is that legal?
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Old 12-01-2010, 05:14 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Market Mover
That's not a rebate. That's an insult. 0.2%? Really??? Is that legal?
We're forgetting that you get .4% on CDI tracks.
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Old 12-01-2010, 10:02 PM   #12
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Rebates

If you are betting $500 or so a day you should be able to get max rebates anywhere.. Im talking 6 to 8% avg on wps at almost all the adws. Its like vegas, you just have to ask. Dont ask and you will get .o2% . There are more than a few agents on here that im sure will hook u up ...lol IM not sure if agents are allowed to advertise on here or how that works. Im sure they need to pay some fee to work thier trade, some one has to keep the lights on.
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Old 12-02-2010, 12:43 AM   #13
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Thanks for the kind words about Turfday...

I was the proud brainchild behind the concept. I am hoping that TwinSpires and/or Bris wants to work with me to revive it.

Your comments to them might help.
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Old 12-02-2010, 01:20 AM   #14
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The Turfday stats were one of the "comps" Youbet gave out if you bet enough with them. And although Bris Ultimates are comped by TS for the track you bet,the detail is lacking compared to Turfday. For example,when I was betting a race from WO a couple of weeks ago,the stat said the the TJ combo was 3/31. Looks pretty boring on the surface. But the race in question was on Turf and TD stats showed that this 3/31 team was 2/3 on Turf with a healthy mutuel. In other words,this was the specific area where this team did their damage. The duo won easy paying $54. Where else can you find this detailed info at? Certainly not the Bris Ultimates.It'll just tell you they are 3/31 and you'll pass. This is the kind of detailed information a serious player would spend hours amassing just to get that edge.But the days of Jack Daniels and candle light are over. This is the age of information. Hopefully TS can see that.
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Old 12-02-2010, 08:50 AM   #15
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i have got so accustomed to turfday stats that i have cut back my betting of thorougbred racing and focused more on harness. to be hones, without turfday stats i am completely lost in space when it comes down to handicapping. what i am going to have to do is but the racing form results on a weekly basis from every track in the country to look up the charts of the races. if i need more than the last race i am going to have to keep more papers. i have an empty room in my house now, so maybe i am going to fill it up to the top with race charts.
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