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Old 03-09-2022, 06:11 PM   #691
OntheRail
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Originally Posted by classhandicapper View Post
Again, at least I now know where you are coming from. You are like the US government and NATO. You are not interested in peace. You are interested in gaining power, resources, land, influence etc... That attitude is why we are in this mess.
I guess that nuke deal between Ukraine and Russia.... the one where Russia agrees not to invade the sovereign territory of Ukraine for their giving up all those nuclear weapons. I believe actual paper was signed. Unlike your backroom wink and nod. But it's all NATO and US... kicking over the cans of peace... and unleash the dogs of war.
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Old 03-09-2022, 06:16 PM   #692
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All I'm saying is this...if the goal was to weaken Russia while simultaneously wrecking Ukraine, then it looks like it's going to be a win.

I just wish people would stop all the nauseating Ukraine posturing...as if protecting Ukraine was ever some sort of goal. Or that it's the moral thing to do.

Ukraine was a pawn in the end, plain and simple. Both sides are guilty. Russia is guilty of invading. And US/NATO is guilty of provoking.

And the moral thing to do, would have been to stop the ridiculous notion that NATO wanted or needed Ukraine in the alliance. That would have prevented the invasion of Ukraine. Not an original concept...but a common sense one.
I see we've progressed to the point where we're just making up stuff now.
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Old 03-09-2022, 06:47 PM   #693
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I guess that nuke deal between Ukraine and Russia.... the one where Russia agrees not to invade the sovereign territory of Ukraine for their giving up all those nuclear weapons. I believe actual paper was signed. Unlike your backroom wink and nod. But it's all NATO and US... kicking over the cans of peace... and unleash the dogs of war.
W
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Old 03-09-2022, 07:11 PM   #694
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I guess that nuke deal between Ukraine and Russia.... the one where Russia agrees not to invade the sovereign territory of Ukraine for their giving up all those nuclear weapons. I believe actual paper was signed. Unlike your backroom wink and nod. But it's all NATO and US... kicking over the cans of peace... and unleash the dogs of war.
First, if your adversary tells you it's not going to put NATO troops and missiles in former Soviet countries, but they keep moving in that direction, you feel your national security is threatened, so you warn them repeatedly about it for years, your promise to not invade Ukraine if nukes are removed becomes problematical.

That's what happened.

If don't care if you think Russia is an evil empire, they clearly have legitimate national security concerns.

What we did was essentially put a rabid dog in the corner, tease it, and now we are getting upset because it bit.

Also, I didn't say it's all NATO and US's fault.

I said we have degrees of evil here where both sides want control of Ukraine for strategic reasons, oil and gas, extremely strategic natural resources, and in our case a lot of political corruption in Ukraine benefitting certain politicians in the US.

Russia wants all that stuff too and was looking for reasons to invade and install their puppet.

Like I keep saying, if Ukraine was not on Russia's border, strategic for Europe, and had no oil, gas, and natural resources, Russia could invade it, take control, kill thousands, and the entire west would go back to sleep. The idea that they are worried about freedom, democracy etc.. is one gigantic pile of crap. The US does business with some of the worst slime in the world as long as they supply oil to the west and align more closely with the US. They wrap all this crap up in the flag but they are FOS.
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Old 03-09-2022, 07:30 PM   #695
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Originally Posted by classhandicapper View Post
First, if your adversary tells you it's not going to put NATO troops and missiles in former Soviet countries, but they keep moving in that direction, you feel your national security is threatened, so you warn them repeatedly about it for years, your promise to not invade Ukraine if nukes are removed becomes problematical.

That's what happened.

If don't care if you think Russia is an evil empire, they clearly have legitimate national security concerns.

What we did was essentially put a rabid dog in the corner, tease it, and now we are getting upset because it bit.

Also, I didn't say it's all NATO and US's fault.

I said we have degrees of evil here where both sides want control of Ukraine for strategic reasons, oil and gas, extremely strategic natural resources, and in our case a lot of political corruption in Ukraine benefitting certain politicians in the US.

Russia wants all that stuff too and was looking for reasons to invade and install their puppet.

Like I keep saying, if Ukraine was not on Russia's border, strategic for Europe, and had no oil, gas, and natural resources, Russia could invade it, take control, kill thousands, and the entire west would go back to sleep. The idea that they are worried about freedom, democracy etc.. is one gigantic pile of crap. The US does business with some of the worst slime in the world as long as they supply oil to the west and align more closely with the US. They wrap all this crap up in the flag but they are FOS.
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Old 03-09-2022, 07:31 PM   #696
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In fact, ol' Tucker did a piece about this the other night...places all over the world where war is raging and innocent people are dying by the thousands...but apparently, nobody gives a shit about those places...media doesn't report about it here...like it's not happening at all...

Inconvenient truths are named inconvenient for a reason.
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Old 03-09-2022, 08:37 PM   #697
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maybe the media or at least the paper(s) of record have other things on their mind beside true information to the US.??


warning could be ruskie op do not click from US.
haha





https://www.projectveritas.com/news/...edia-coverage/

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Old 03-09-2022, 10:55 PM   #698
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maybe the media or at least the paper(s) of record have other things on their mind beside true information to the US.??


warning could be ruskie op do not click from US.
haha





https://www.projectveritas.com/news/...edia-coverage/
Wow...good stuff...for another thread
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Old 03-10-2022, 09:15 AM   #699
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Nice to see a lot here have just decided to repeat verbatim Russian State propaganda.
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Old 03-10-2022, 09:16 AM   #700
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He's not.

At all.

Don't let it stop you though.
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Old 03-10-2022, 09:29 AM   #701
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Originally Posted by classhandicapper View Post
First, if your adversary tells you it's not going to put NATO troops and missiles in former Soviet countries, but they keep moving in that direction, you feel your national security is threatened, so you warn them repeatedly about it for years, your promise to not invade Ukraine if nukes are removed becomes problematical.
One of these is written down. One isn't. Something you continually ignore because it does fit your priors.

Quote:
That's what happened.
I'll ask again for you to direct me where it was written down. Fuck... Trump signed something Kim... it didn't say anything of import but even they signed something.

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If don't care if you think Russia is an evil empire, they clearly have legitimate national security concerns.
So do their neighbors. Something you conveniently ignore.

Quote:
What we did was essentially put a rabid dog in the corner, tease it, and now we are getting upset because it bit.

Also, I didn't say it's all NATO and US's fault.
But you just did...

Quote:
I said we have degrees of evil here where both sides want control of Ukraine for strategic reasons, oil and gas, extremely strategic natural resources, and in our case a lot of political corruption in Ukraine benefitting certain politicians in the US.
How does Ukraine wanting to join the EU suddenly become us taking over strategic natural resources?

Please explain.

Quote:
Russia wants all that stuff too and was looking for reasons to invade and install their puppet.
Goddammit you're close...

So we can cut it off there... the reason Russia invaded Ukraine is because the Ukraine wants to integrate into the western economy. The key word in that sentence is wants.

Russia, a historically backward and paranoid power, sees its historical possession slipping away. That is unacceptable to them.

Anything else is just rehashing Kremlin talking points.
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Old 03-10-2022, 10:44 AM   #702
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How does Ukraine wanting to join the EU suddenly become us taking over strategic natural resources?

Please explain.
That's a pretty obvious answer. Why do you need an explanation? Granted you have to connect several dots to get there but the idea is hardly unfathomable.
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Old 03-10-2022, 10:50 AM   #703
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That's a pretty obvious answer. Why do you need an explanation? Granted you have to connect several dots to get there but the idea is hardly unfathomable.
Connect them.
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Old 03-10-2022, 01:43 PM   #704
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Interesting that the allies get a pass for the bombing of Dresden 2 months before Germany's surrender in WWII, but the Russians are being accused of genocide in Ukraine. The outcome of the world war in Europe was determined, yet allied bombers killed over 100,000 innocent civilians none the less. Hospitals and schools weren't spared either...look it up.
Just who writes the rules governing war, and who gets special exemptions?
Exactly who are the individuals of NATO and our own shitty government that determine what's right and what's wrong? Who determines what is non-intentional and what is premeditated?
There are lots of questions with a variety of answers. Who's judge and jury?
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Old 03-10-2022, 02:02 PM   #705
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...Who's judge and jury?
All throughout recorded history:

The side that won the war is who gets to be judge and jury.

Doesn't mean they make fair or even moral decisions.

But right or wrong that is who gets to decide.


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