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Old 03-09-2022, 02:35 PM   #676
elysiantraveller
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Again, at least I now know where you are coming from. You are like the US government and NATO. You are not interested in peace. You are interested in gaining power, resources, land, influence etc... That attitude is why we are in this mess.
Yup.

I ordered the invasion of Ukraine.

You got me.
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Old 03-09-2022, 02:35 PM   #677
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Again, at least I now know where you are coming from. You are like the US government and NATO. You are not interested in peace. You are interested in gaining power, resources, land, influence etc... That attitude is why we are in this mess.
Sounds just like Putin.
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Old 03-09-2022, 02:38 PM   #678
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Again, at least I now know where you are coming from. You are like the US government and NATO. You are not interested in peace. You are interested in gaining power, resources, land, influence etc... That attitude is why we are in this mess.
Remember when the whole Republican party was basically like Ely in terms of foreign policy?

Now at least half the Republican party sounds like liberals from 15-20+ years ago...lol...myself included.
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Old 03-09-2022, 02:57 PM   #679
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Again, at least I now know where you are coming from. You are like the US government and NATO. You are not interested in peace. You are interested in gaining power, resources, land, influence etc... That attitude is why we are in this mess.
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Remember when the whole Republican party was basically like Ely in terms of foreign policy?

Now at least half the Republican party sounds like liberals from 15-20+ years ago...lol...myself included.
I want to just take a moment here to cut thru the absolute bullshit I'm hearing.

It's the quasi-apologia and nonsense I expect to hear from Anarcho-Commie Tankies. Horseshoe theory does indeed create strange bedfellows.

You all keep blaming some gentleman's nonsense agreement from 1990 between the United States and the USSR (doesn't even exist but whatever). We have countless treaties with both Russia and the dead USSR. We write that shit down but now suddenly we don't because that would actually be convenient...? Or maybe because we didn't actually agree to anything.

I can name one agreement though that actually is written down that you all had zero fucking problems saying wasn't real.

So which is it?

Secondly, does Poland get a vote? How about Estonia? Lithuania? These are independent countries... do they not get to join alliances with other nations? Do we tell them no because it might upset Putin and James Baker said something to Mikhail fucking Gorbachev 32 years ago?

I didn't expect to see myself arguing with basically USSR Tankie Fandom here yet here we are...
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Old 03-09-2022, 03:08 PM   #680
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Sorry to disappoint big boy. It's still a free country, right?

Anyhoo...class is the only one who mentioned the gentlemen's agreement thing, so try not to get too triggered.

I only need to go back to 2008 and what transpired after...that's where I hang my hat.
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Old 03-09-2022, 03:13 PM   #681
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I agree pretty much with the professor from University of Chicago...on all of his analysis in the 22 minute video posted in reply #619.

I'd like to hear Ely's take on the professor. I know he doesn't watch videos I post, so luckily, I didn't post that video.
Does it really matter at this point, your long held comments about about the evil that has been done in the past by theses people leads me to believe not only are you correct but I too suggesting that it is all an act where people need to die and Putin and Biden are just playing their roles. I just do not see either men acting any different.
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Old 03-09-2022, 03:28 PM   #682
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Sorry to disappoint big boy. It's still a free country, right?

Anyhoo...class is the only one who mentioned the gentlemen's agreement thing, so try not to get too triggered.

I only need to go back to 2008 and what transpired after...that's where I hang my hat.
Is NATO enlargement to blame?

You've said as much.
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Old 03-09-2022, 03:43 PM   #683
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All I'm saying is this...if the goal was to weaken Russia while simultaneously wrecking Ukraine, then it looks like it's going to be a win.

I just wish people would stop all the nauseating Ukraine posturing...as if protecting Ukraine was ever some sort of goal. Or that it's the moral thing to do.

Ukraine was a pawn in the end, plain and simple. Both sides are guilty. Russia is guilty of invading. And US/NATO is guilty of provoking.

And the moral thing to do, would have been to stop the ridiculous notion that NATO wanted or needed Ukraine in the alliance. That would have prevented the invasion of Ukraine. Not an original concept...but a common sense one.
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Old 03-09-2022, 03:58 PM   #684
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Originally Posted by elysiantraveller View Post
I want to just take a moment here to cut thru the absolute bullshit I'm hearing.

It's the quasi-apologia and nonsense I expect to hear from Anarcho-Commie Tankies. Horseshoe theory does indeed create strange bedfellows.

You all keep blaming some gentleman's nonsense agreement from 1990 between the United States and the USSR (doesn't even exist but whatever). We have countless treaties with both Russia and the dead USSR. We write that shit down but now suddenly we don't because that would actually be convenient...? Or maybe because we didn't actually agree to anything.

I can name one agreement though that actually is written down that you all had zero fucking problems saying wasn't real.

So which is it?

Secondly, does Poland get a vote? How about Estonia? Lithuania? These are independent countries... do they not get to join alliances with other nations? Do we tell them no because it might upset Putin and James Baker said something to Mikhail fucking Gorbachev 32 years ago?

I didn't expect to see myself arguing with basically USSR Tankie Fandom here yet here we are...
You are making this way too complex. It's actually simple.

1. Putin is an autocrat and very bad guy that is willing to lie, cheat, steal, kill people, overthrow governments, install dictators friendly to him, and do all sorts of terrible things to gain power, money, natural resources, and strategic advantage.

2. The leaders of the US government/Europe/NATO/Corporate American/Wall ST etc... are bad guys masquerading as good guys that are willing to lie, cheat, steal, overthrow governments and install democracies or dictators friendly to them, etc... to gain power, money, natural resources, and strategic advantage.

That isn't good vs. evil.

It's less evil vs. evil.

Don't believe the crap.

The American people are good (as are the Russian people and Ukrainian people) but their governments, media, corporations etc.. are full of corrupt sociopaths.
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Old 03-09-2022, 04:05 PM   #685
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The American people are good (as are the Russian people and Ukrainian people) but their governments, media, corporations etc.. are full of corrupt sociopaths.
I didn't always believe this...but I fully buy into it now.

It's the only theory that explains A LOT. And I mean...A LOT.
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Old 03-09-2022, 04:11 PM   #686
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The American people are good (as are the Russian people and Ukrainian people) but their governments, media, corporations etc.. are full of corrupt sociopaths.
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Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage View Post
I didn't always believe this...but I fully buy into it now.

It's the only theory that explains A LOT. And I mean...A LOT.
Agree 100%.

And it really DOES explain a LOT.


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Old 03-09-2022, 04:26 PM   #687
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I may be over the top in my cynicism today because I'm in a bad mood but the last few years have taught me how corrupt our media, intelligence community, government institutions, etc.. are. I've lost faith in all of it.
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Old 03-09-2022, 04:46 PM   #688
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I may be over the top in my cynicism today because I'm in a bad mood but the last few years have taught me how corrupt our media, intelligence community, government institutions, etc.. are. I've lost faith in all of it.
Don't mistake individual incompetence for organizational corruption.
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Old 03-09-2022, 04:56 PM   #689
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Don't mistake individual incompetence for organizational corruption.
I understand what you saying, but I'm pretty sure our media is mostly just corrupt and purposely spinning/lying to advance some domestic political agenda or some domestic/international IC agenda.
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Old 03-09-2022, 06:00 PM   #690
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No matter happened prior to last week, here is what matters now.

1. Power mad dictator invades neighboring nation
2. Thousands of civilians, including women and children are dying
3. Millions of people have lost their homes
4. The "free" world lets it go on and on while they search for their balls and/or souls, in spite of likelihood they have had either for a very long time
5. The great minds of our time (PA OT) host International "Tag! You're it"-Fest 2020.
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