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Old 03-28-2017, 05:56 PM   #226
dilanesp
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RA didn't actually duck the BC. You act as if her connections passed it up to race in a softer spot.
Of course she ducked it. She was sound and didn't run in it.

Just because you have an irrational hatred of synthetic tracks doesn't mean that refusing to run on one isn't "ducking".
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Old 03-28-2017, 06:01 PM   #227
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One of the best performances, given the circumstances---->YES

THE BEST performance I've ever seen------>Hardly
I agree but, you have to admit that he has so much potential. Kind of reminds me of CC's performances just last year and asking the question who can run with Arrogate this year.

The last few years we've seen Bayern/CC/SB, AP, CC and this year Arrogate. Anyone else notice they're all Cali horses and Baffert connected except for CC and SB.

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Old 03-28-2017, 06:04 PM   #228
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Of course she ducked it. She was sound and didn't run in it.
Rachel had a real campaign that year...she didn't sit in NY beating tomato-can fillies all year...she won races like the Preakness and Haskell and Woodward...you know...against boys.

So by the time the BC Classic rolls around, she's done...everyone admits she was done...she was actually never the same again.

Combine that, with the crap synth track, and there was no ducking...it just wasn't happening...to say her connections ducked the BC Classic is right up there with saying Arrogate didn't have a massively bad trip in the DWC.
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Old 03-28-2017, 06:33 PM   #229
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Originally Posted by AltonKelsey View Post
Being banged around and having to make up a 10L head start given to a field in one of the richest races in the world.

Whatever the fig was , you can add 5L or so to it to get the actual effort.

And won in hand.

Sorry, I'm not in the camp of 'nothing to see here'.
Well said. I think people are trying to be way too clever here.
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Old 03-28-2017, 06:55 PM   #230
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Rachel had a real campaign that year...she didn't sit in NY beating tomato-can fillies all year...she won races like the Preakness and Haskell and Woodward...you know...against boys.

So by the time the BC Classic rolls around, she's done...everyone admits she was done...she was actually never the same again.

Combine that, with the crap synth track, and there was no ducking...it just wasn't happening...to say her connections ducked the BC Classic is right up there with saying Arrogate didn't have a massively bad trip in the DWC.
I don't get the "she was sound" part. I thought the standard backstretch gossip was she came out of the Woodard with something wrong.

The ancillary evidence is the never really mentioned a race after the Woodard. It was like 72 hours after the race everyone in Assmussen's barn was like "Rachel who?"
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Old 03-28-2017, 07:25 PM   #231
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I was obsessed with Rachel, and a fan (but not Kool-Aid drinker) of Zenyatta. When Rachel didn't regain her 3 yo form, I remember wondering if I would be as interested in the sport without her competing. Turns out I can just relive all the RA/Z debates that raged when I first got really into this message board.
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Old 03-28-2017, 07:47 PM   #232
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Rachel had a real campaign that year...she didn't sit in NY beating tomato-can fillies all year...she won races like the Preakness and Haskell and Woodward...you know...against boys.

So by the time the BC Classic rolls around, she's done...everyone admits she was done...she was actually never the same again.

Combine that, with the crap synth track, and there was no ducking...it just wasn't happening...to say her connections ducked the BC Classic is right up there with saying Arrogate didn't have a massively bad trip in the DWC.
Funny...I was here throughout that epic Rachel campaign...and no Rachel fan here ever suggested at that time that Rachel was "done" at the end of it. Even when Rachel started "underperforming" during the early stages of her 4-year old campaign, the excuses were coming rapid-fire from her "fanboys"...especially when her connections "ducked" the much-anticipated Zenyatta/Rachel showdown on the dirt at Oaklawn.

When was it exactly that you concluded that Rachel was "done", Mike...and why did you keep this observation a secret from us here?
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Old 03-28-2017, 07:49 PM   #233
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I was obsessed with Rachel, and a fan (but not Kool-Aid drinker) of Zenyatta. When Rachel didn't regain her 3 yo form, I remember wondering if I would be as interested in the sport without her competing. Turns out I can just relive all the RA/Z debates that raged when I first got really into this message board.

Makes two of us with Rachel. I remember the announcement that she was coming to the haskell and i damn near lost it. Same day i reserved a table in the picnic area. The weather could have been better with the rain but she didnt disappoint.

I then remember her coming back to run in the lady secret. That weekend I was in AC. Was up all night that Friday and woke up in a complete mess at like 8am. Decided screw it, got in the car and drove up to monmouth to see her run again. Needless to say it was a rough day, i remember it feeling like it was one of the hottest days ever with the humidity, and im sure the hangover didnt help.

The rachel/zenyatta match up was one i would have killed to see. When rachel came back the following year you could tell she wasnt the same. Kind of glad it didnt happen at that time. Always one of my time all favorites.
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Old 03-28-2017, 07:51 PM   #234
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Makes two of us with Rachel. I remember the announcement that she was coming to the haskell and i damn near lost it. Same day i reserved a table in the picnic area. The weather could have been better with the rain but she didnt disappoint.

I then remember her coming back to run in the lady secret. That weekend I was in AC. Was up all night that Friday and woke up in a complete mess at like 8am. Decided screw it, got in the car and drove up to monmouth to see her run again. Needless to say it was a rough day, i remember it feeling like it was one of the hottest days ever with the humidity, and im sure the hangover didnt help.

The rachel/zenyatta match up was one i would have killed to see. When rachel came back the following year you could tell she wasnt the same. Kind of glad it didnt happen at that time. Always one of my time all favorites.
It's just as well. It would have broken your hearts...
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Old 03-28-2017, 07:52 PM   #235
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Rachel had a real campaign that year...she didn't sit in NY beating tomato-can fillies all year...she won races like the Preakness and Haskell and Woodward...you know...against boys.
Macho Again (the horse Rachel was life or death to beat in the Woodward) was, indeed, a tomato can. And Zenyatta soundly crushed Mine that Bird, the horse that finished second in Rachel's Preakness.

Look, what you are saying is that she had an EXCUSE to duck the BC Classic. That doesn't mean she didn't duck it though. She would have gotten her behind kicked by Zenyatta (which you admit) because a Breeders' Cup Classic in California is simply a far tougher race than its meaningless prep, the overrated Woodward Stakes in New York.

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Old 03-28-2017, 07:54 PM   #236
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Rachel was a "Champion"...but Zenyatta was a LEGEND.

None of us will ever again see a mare distinguish herself in the BC Classic, the way Zenyatta did.
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Old 03-28-2017, 07:58 PM   #237
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When you are a mare, and you run in back-to-back BC Classics...then you haven't "ducked" ANYBODY...in my opinion.
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Old 03-28-2017, 08:03 PM   #238
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When you are a mare, and you run in back-to-back BC Classics...then you haven't "ducked" ANYBODY...in my opinion.
People complain about Zs management, but if she was shipped all over the place and overraced she wouldn't have had as good of a career and people would have complained that she got butchered by stupid mgmt. I love how she was managed, if only all horses got managed with such care.
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Old 03-28-2017, 08:07 PM   #239
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Rachel was a "Champion"...but Zenyatta was a LEGEND.

None of us will ever again see a mare distinguish herself in the BC Classic, the way Zenyatta did.
Well stated.
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Old 03-28-2017, 08:08 PM   #240
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People complain about Zs management, but if she was shipped all over the place and overraced she wouldn't have had as good of a career and people would have complained that she got butchered by stupid mgmt. I love how she was managed, if only all horses got managed with such care.
If the horse didn't repeatedly show up in the Classic...then there would be validity to the argument that she "ducked" somebody. But she showed up back-to-back, on TWO surfaces...so, these "ducking" arguments don't hold an OUNCE of water. Especially when those who are posing the "ducking" arguments are fans of a superstar filly who watched the Breeders Cup races on TV.
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