Religion II

[hcap]

Originally Posted by boxcar

What's the matter, Hcap, you can't see the parallels between man's inability to not lie and his inability to not sin?

If all men are liars, it does not necessarily, follow all men are totally depraved.

1)-You set up Calvin's and your bonkers definition of what totally depraved means

2)-Then equated lying to your own bonkers definition.

3)-Therefore, pseudo-ironclad logic, form an illogical literal ironclad mind

Ps: Avoid logic.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

If all men are liars, it does not necessarily, follow all men are totally depraved.

1)-You set up Calvin's and your bonkers definition of what totally depraved means

2)-Then equated lying to your own bonkers definition.

3)-Therefore, pseudo-ironclad logic, form an illogical literal ironclad mind

Ps: Avoid logic.

Yes, it does follow. Since ALL the faculties of men are infected with sinfulness, men cannot not lie and cannot not quit sinning in other areas, as well.

Can a stream be pure when it's been polluted by salt from the sea?

[hcap]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Yes, it does follow. Since ALL the faculties of men are infected with sinfulness, men cannot not lie and cannot not quit sinning in other areas, as well.

Can a stream be pure when it's been polluted by salt from the sea?

No it absolutely does not. You pontificate artificial premises and eiither 'prove' then or knock them down as though you wield absolute truth. Somehow demonstrating your "truths" by other made up truths, or disproving others' statements.....totally misrepresented by you,

Gee, it's just wonderful how you define one idiotic POS wit another made up idiotic POS.


As I said avoid logic at all costs

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

No it absolutely does not. You pontificate artificial premises and eiither 'prove' then or knock them down as though you wield absolute truth. Somehow demonstrating your "truths" by other made up truths, or disproving others' statements.....totally misrepresented by you,

Gee, it's just wonderful how you define one idiotic POS wit another made up idiotic POS.


As I said avoid logic at all costs

Did you get off your meds again? You psychobabble above is worse torture for the human mind than a thousand razor cuts to the body!

But I am eternally grateful to you for bringing "absolute truth" into this discussion; for since every man is a liar (affirmed by the bible and just recently by YOU!), then this universal truth is absolutely true. Now, you must explain why everyone lies. Why is everyone on this planet infected by this moral flaw?

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Just because you don't have the SS numbers or DNA samples of the eyewitnesses doesn't count.

Giving you the benefit, it does not count either way. Claiming otherwise is an argument from ignorance. If it does not count either way then Occam's Razor says it did not happen. Your so-called good news is fake news.

Your book claims that zombies walked. No evidence of that either.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

... since every man is a liar ...

Including Jesus? Including you?

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

Giving you the benefit, it does not count either way. Claiming otherwise is an argument from ignorance. If it does not count either way then Occam's Razor says it did not happen. Your so-called good news is fake news.

Your book claims that zombies walked. No evidence of that either.

Occam's Razor says no such thing.

The resurrection occurred not only because eyewitness saw, talked with and ate with and touched the risen Christ but because the apostles were transformed from frightened and fearful cowards but into bold and courageous preachers of the gospel despite all the hostility they faced.

Furthermore, believers through the ages bear witness to Christ living in them by their transformed lives.

The Good News is really the Greatest News in the world.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

Including Jesus? Including you?

Have I excluded myself? Learn to read already.

As fa as Jesus is concerned:

1 Peter 2:22
22 "He committed no sin,
and no deceit was found in his mouth."
NIV

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Occam's Razor says no such thing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_razor

Occam's razor ... is the problem-solving principle that essentially states that "simpler solutions are more likely to be correct than complex ones."

So which is the simpler solution? That an event unprecedented in all human history has occurred or that a religious cult has made up a story?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dying-and-rising_deity

Originally Posted by boxcar

The resurrection occurred not only because eyewitness saw, talked with and ate with and touched the risen Christ but because the apostles were transformed from frightened and fearful cowards but into bold and courageous preachers of the gospel despite all the hostility they faced.

Really? Outside Christian propaganda where is this recorded?

Originally Posted by boxcar

Furthermore, believers through the ages bear witness to Christ living in them by their transformed lives.

The same could be said of Buddhists, of Jains. For all you know the same could be said of Scientologists. Do you remember Tom Cruise's Scientology rant?

Originally Posted by boxcar

The Good News is really the Greatest News in the world.

If it's too good to be true, it probably isn't.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Have I excluded myself? Learn to read already.

Learn what a question mark at the end of a sentence means!

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_razor



So which is the simpler solution? That an event unprecedented in all human history has occurred or that a religious cult has made up a story?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dying-and-rising_deity

Really? Outside Christian propaganda where is this recorded?

The same could be said of Buddhists, of Jains. For all you know the same could be said of Scientologists. Do you remember Tom Cruise's Scientology rant?

If it's too good to be true, it probably isn't.

You're misapplying (actually abusing!) Occam's Razor which essentially states that simpler solutions are much more likely to be correct that complex ones. When this law (principle) is applied to the resurrection accounts in scripture, the most straightforward and simpler solution is that Christ did physically rise on the third day versus the many insolvable problems that occur with lame theories that are antithetical to those accounts.

[Light]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Because you look at God as something you have made into your own image -- a figment of your own carnal imagination -- perhaps as some cosmic Santa Claus type who just loves everyone to death no matter what -- you and your ego will spend all eternity in hell unless you repent and come to your senses.

Jesus died on the cross despite our sins and for our sins because he loved us ALL. Where in the Bible does it say that Jesus only died for SOME people? I don't see any footnotes there.


For you to say God only loves "some people" and once again that I am going to Hell because I believe God loves everyone is to show what an anti Christ you are. You preach Hate in the name of God. And mock those who believe in Love as shown above.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Light

Jesus died on the cross despite our sins and for our sins because he loved us ALL. Where in the Bible does it say that Jesus only died for SOME people? I don't see any footnotes there.


For you to say God only loves "some people" and once again that I am going to Hell because I believe God loves everyone is to show what an anti Christ you are. You preach Hate in the name of God. And mock those who believe in Love as shown above.

Well...Mr. Light, you are the one claiming that scripture teaches universal salvation. Prove it. You keep telling me how ignorant I am of the scriptures, so I'll defer to you, since you obviously think you're such a bible expert, which you hold in such low esteem to begin with. Show us one text in scripture that says that Jesus died for everyone in the world in the distributive sense.

[HalvOnHorseracing]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Well...Mr. Light, you are the one claiming that scripture teaches universal salvation. Prove it. You keep telling me how ignorant I am of the scriptures, so I'll defer to you, since you obviously think you're such a bible expert, which you hold in such low esteem to begin with. Show us one text in scripture that says that Jesus died for everyone in the world in the distributive sense.

Don't you believe that even if Jesus didn't die for Bonnie and Clyde the crooks, don't you think he died for them if they had repented and put themselves in the Lord's hands? Doesn't one crucifixion count as long as you are a true believer, even if you started out with a bad attitude? And can't that number change as people find the Lord? You could suggest he died for everyone in the world as long as they eventually started thinking like you.

I have a question. How long were Adam and Eve in the garden before Eve snagged the fruit?

In the story Adam was a real stand up guy." Hey, she handed me an (apple) and I took a bite. I didn't know it was from the tree that we were supposed to leave alone."

It sounds like a joke. A talking snake walks into a garden. He thinks a minute and figures that naked lady might have the body but probably not the brains. God cuts her no slack. "Ok, Eve. You and every woman after you is going to feel the 10 out of 10 pain when you have a kid. I was going to make it like a water slide - down the slide and right out, pain free. But I've been having a pretty tough millennium. I'm tired, I could use a stiff drink, and nobody around here listens to me."

So here's the question. How were a woman's reproductive organs built so she would be able to roll an 8-pound kid out of ______ with no pain? Did she get a heavenly epidural?

Who was Cain married to?

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by HalvOnHorseracing

Don't you believe that even if Jesus didn't die for Bonnie and Clyde the crooks, don't you think he died for them if they had repented and put themselves in the Lord's hands? Doesn't one crucifixion count as long as you are a true believer, even if you started out with a bad attitude? And can't that number change as people find the Lord? You could suggest he died for everyone in the world as long as they eventually started thinking like you.

I have a question. How long were Adam and Eve in the garden before Eve snagged the fruit?

In the story Adam was a real stand up guy." Hey, she handed me an (apple) and I took a bite. I didn't know it was from the tree that we were supposed to leave alone."

It sounds like a joke. A talking snake walks into a garden. He thinks a minute and figures that naked lady might have the body but probably not the brains. God cuts her no slack. "Ok, Eve. You and every woman after you is going to feel the 10 out of 10 pain when you have a kid. I was going to make it like a water slide - down the slide and right out, pain free. But I've been having a pretty tough millennium. I'm tired, I could use a stiff drink, and nobody around here listens to me."

So here's the question. How were a woman's reproductive organs built so she would be able to roll an 8-pound kid out of ______ with no pain? Did she get a heavenly epidural?

Who was Cain married to?

Another post that that needs a recount!

Re the Cain question: Don't know. Scripture is silent on it. I, likewise, will be silent.

Re Eve's reproductive system: God's curse upon Eve was he would greatly multiply her pain. So, apparently, even if Eve hadn't sinned, she would have still experienced some pain in childbirth.

Re: a "talking snake": There were no talking snakes in the Garden. The Serpent, that Satan inhabited, was cursed to eat the dust of the ground after the temptation.

Re Adam: You're right (finally!) about Adam's character. He was quite the scoundrel, as he even implicitly blamed God for giving him a defective woman (3:12). There's nothing in all scripture that speaks positively about Adam. Quite the contrary, in fact. As stated often in the past (even the relatively recent past) God sovereignly chose to reconcile Eve to himself (implicitly understood) (3:15), but Adam was conspicuously excluded in that reconciliation. In other words, God unconditionally elected to save Eve, but chose to pass over Adam.

Re the time of the Fall: Again, scripture is silent on this.

Re The Serpent and the Woman: Satan was very clever. He very likely knew that Eve's instructions about eating from the forbidden tree came indirectly to her by Adam. It's possible that Eve never interacted directly with God prior to her sin, as Adam did. Satan obviously reasoned that she would be a softer target, and she was.

Re your Bonnie and Clyde analogy: I will refrain from answering since I want to give Light enough rope with which to hang himself regarding the theological issue of election.