Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com - Horse Racing Message Board

Go Back   Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com - Horse Racing Message Board > Thoroughbred Horse Racing Discussion > Handicapping Library


Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread
Old 11-26-2022, 01:18 PM   #16
Johnny V
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 605
I thought I recognized Maloney's book and sure enough I have it in my library and I started reading it. It is a pretty good read so far IMO. I am a little more than halfway through. I don't know why I never got around to reading it before this. Usually I devour anything racing related right off.
Johnny V is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 11-26-2022, 05:35 PM   #17
cj
@TimeformUSfigs
 
cj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,208
Quote:
Originally Posted by thaskalos View Post
Not necessarily. There is a place called RPM Handicapping Giant which offers many handicapping methods guaranteed to provide the bettor with a "huge edge at the track"...and they require hardly any work at all.
LOL, you got me for a second there.
cj is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 11-26-2022, 05:38 PM   #18
cj
@TimeformUSfigs
 
cj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,208
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave S View Post
Who said anything about "shortcuts"? Any worthy method will require lots of time and effort involved with it to make it successful. Just because his focus is on replays doesn't mean that this the only way one might proceed.
That isn't what the touts say about the methods they sell. They say they work as prescribed.
cj is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 11-26-2022, 06:12 PM   #19
Dave S
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by cj View Post
That isn't what the touts say about the methods they sell. They say they work as prescribed.
Obviously we are free to develop and test any method that we wish. It does not have to come from a tout (although there is no reason why it couldn't) it could come from our own devices. It all boils down to how much research and time that you devote to it but in the end most methods do lose money.
Dave S is online now   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 11-26-2022, 08:59 PM   #20
thaskalos
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 27,134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave S View Post
Obviously we are free to develop and test any method that we wish. It does not have to come from a tout (although there is no reason why it couldn't) it could come from our own devices. It all boils down to how much research and time that you devote to it but in the end most methods do lose money.
I am willing to bet my bottom dollar that ALL the commercially available handicapping methods out there lose money at the track. IMO...there isn't a single winning handicapping method currently being sold...regardless of what the shysters who sell them might claim.
thaskalos is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 11-26-2022, 09:08 PM   #21
Dave S
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by thaskalos View Post
I am willing to bet my bottom dollar that ALL the commercially available handicapping methods out there lose money at the track. IMO...there isn't a single winning handicapping method currently being sold...regardless of what the shysters who sell them might claim.
So where do stand on Mike Maloney's method? Is he just another shyster as well?
Dave S is online now   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 11-26-2022, 09:14 PM   #22
thaskalos
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 27,134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave S View Post
So where do stand on Mike Maloney's method? Is he just another shyster as well?
I didn't see Maloney selling a handicapping method. He is pointing the way...and it's up to the reader to decide if he is willing to travel the long, hard road. That's a far cry from what the "shysters" out there are offering.
thaskalos is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 11-27-2022, 12:05 AM   #23
Johnny V
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 605
I believe there is a difference between a handicapping method and a system which I believe is what you are really talking about. I basically agree that systems bought commercially will most likely not be profitable. Not to say that maybe some of the better ones might be helpful to some who are hopeless losers in that they will possibly develop some feel for the game and maybe cut down their losses to a more manageable degree. It might even lead them to pursue more knowledge on their own. A system is better than nothing for these folks.

Methods are something else IMO. We all have a method. We approach the game with our own methods either borrowed and we enhanced upon or learned by our own trial and error. We make a decisions based on that. Decision making is something a system player does really not do. He lacks that quick thinking, making changes to suit the particular racing situation or changes. He hasn't learned to do that yet. So for him a system can be beneficial.
Johnny V is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 11-27-2022, 12:18 AM   #24
Dave Schwartz
 
Dave Schwartz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 16,212
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny V View Post
Decision making is something a system player does really not do. He lacks that quick thinking, making changes to suit the particular racing situation or changes. He hasn't learned to do that yet. So for him a system can be beneficial.
Your assessment is right on.


I've spent 4 decades as a pure system player.

As the whales have proliferated, it has become more and more difficult for me to win with an absolutely systematic approach.

Within just the past few months I got a performance coach. She specializes in traders and contends that in her industry, there really isn't such a thing as "pure system plays."

She says that almost every single play has gray areas.

Initially, I fought this tooth and nail, but eventually succumbed to the fact that she's correct: there really are a lot of gray races.

Don't misunderstand - my play is still based upon systems, components, and processes, but now I am a HYBRID player - much like an online chess player who uses software to suggest moves as well as playing the game himself.

Ultimately, the play you make is YOURS - for whatever reason you make it.

Last edited by Dave Schwartz; 11-27-2022 at 12:32 AM.
Dave Schwartz is online now   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 11-27-2022, 12:47 PM   #25
Tom
The Voice of Reason!
 
Tom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
Posts: 109,311
Mike's book is more of a text book, and it goes far beyond just race watching.
As a winner, his ideas are probably worth lookkig at, trying, adjusting, combining with other ideas. After all, there no winning methods, only winning players.

This book is a very good text for handicapping, but you need to do the work to make the money.
__________________
Who does the Racing Form Detective like in this one?
Tom is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 11-27-2022, 11:11 PM   #26
ranchwest
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: near Lone Star Park
Posts: 4,752
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Schwartz View Post
Your assessment is right on.


I've spent 4 decades as a pure system player.

As the whales have proliferated, it has become more and more difficult for me to win with an absolutely systematic approach.

Within just the past few months I got a performance coach. She specializes in traders and contends that in her industry, there really isn't such a thing as "pure system plays."

She says that almost every single play has gray areas.

Initially, I fought this tooth and nail, but eventually succumbed to the fact that she's correct: there really are a lot of gray races.

Don't misunderstand - my play is still based upon systems, components, and processes, but now I am a HYBRID player - much like an online chess player who uses software to suggest moves as well as playing the game himself.

Ultimately, the play you make is YOURS - for whatever reason you make it.
I think it would take some very complex computer code to analyze scenarios as well as the human brain can when assisted by computer calculations.
__________________
Ranch West
Equine Performance Analyst
ranchwest is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 11-28-2022, 11:07 AM   #27
metro
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 373
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave S View Post
Who said anything about "shortcuts"? Any worthy method will require lots of time and effort involved with it to make it successful. Just because his focus is on replays doesn't mean that this the only way one might proceed.
Unless he's changed his ways Mike's focus is more on looking for biases, making most of his trip notes during the live race, then confirming his notes with the replays (pan and head on) shown right after the race goes official. Once that track's races are over he'll assign his bias figures based on those notes.

Last edited by metro; 11-28-2022 at 11:11 AM.
metro is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 11-28-2022, 12:41 PM   #28
Dave Schwartz
 
Dave Schwartz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 16,212
Quote:
Originally Posted by ranchwest View Post
I think it would take some very complex computer code to analyze scenarios as well as the human brain can when assisted by computer calculations.
True.

Just because we humans can analyze scenarios without deep learning code does not mean we do it well enough to win.
Dave Schwartz is online now   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 11-28-2022, 04:38 PM   #29
FakeNameChanged
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,176
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny V View Post
I thought I recognized Maloney's book and sure enough I have it in my library and I started reading it. It is a pretty good read so far IMO. I am a little more than halfway through. I don't know why I never got around to reading it before this. Usually I devour anything racing related right off.
I thought his book was reviewed right here on PA shortly after it came out? Or maybe I watched a video of a couple of guys reviewing it and talking to Mike. He talked about his transition from a regular 9-5 salaried job into becoming a professional gambler, including convincing his wife. She supported it.
__________________
One of the downsides of the Internet is that it allows like-minded people to form communities, and sometimes those communities are stupid.
FakeNameChanged is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 11-28-2022, 06:45 PM   #30
ranchwest
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: near Lone Star Park
Posts: 4,752
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Schwartz View Post
True.

Just because we humans can analyze scenarios without deep learning code does not mean we do it well enough to win.
It also requires a LOT of experience and discernment and learning to know which scenarios to recognize.
__________________
Ranch West
Equine Performance Analyst
ranchwest is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Reply




Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

» Advertisement
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:38 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 1999 - 2022 -- PaceAdvantage.Com -- All Rights Reserved
We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program
designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.