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Old 08-29-2022, 12:11 AM   #31
Al Gobbi
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Originally Posted by Elkchester Road View Post
I say this again. The new Whips were implemented. That wasn't enough. What will be next when limits to Whip Strikes aren't enough?
no whipping allowed period - and there are many in the industry (The Jockey Club, CHRB, Stronach, etc.) who want that to become the standard
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Old 08-29-2022, 08:48 AM   #32
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g's is an awful big hit for the mere appearance of abuse.
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Old 08-29-2022, 01:02 PM   #33
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A friend of mine was recently contacted by HISA stewards and was informed that he was going to have to forfeit his earnings from a recent race at SAR. The reason was his rider 'appeared' to strike his horse 10 times during the running of a recent race. I asked my friend to clarify if he was contacted by NY or HISA stewards. He told me they introduced themselves as HISA stewards and the call came from KY.
They had scheduled a zoom hearing with him yesterday (Sunday) at noon. The zoom meeting never occurred and he was not NOT contacted by HISA of any cancellation. Typical government response. My friend told me he was being interviewed on the Steve Byk show this morning to talk about this incident.
I'm interested to find out how the interview went what happened to the HISA stews. I can assure you that if HISA had conducted the zoom session and my friend would not have joined the meeting he would immediately lost the purse.
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Old 08-29-2022, 03:22 PM   #34
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no whipping allowed period - and there are many in the industry (The Jockey Club, CHRB, Stronach, etc.) who want that to become the standard
Probs.

For decades Racing has handled their business like they could care less about Bettors. None of this is a surprise. What IS a surprise is their determination to do this in spite of what the numbers say. Their game...their rules.

My money...my rules. It really is that simple.
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Old 08-29-2022, 07:10 PM   #35
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Old 08-29-2022, 09:29 PM   #36
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These frivolous rules are going to run many people out of the sport
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Old 08-29-2022, 10:29 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by TonyK@HSH View Post
A friend of mine was recently contacted by HISA stewards and was informed that he was going to have to forfeit his earnings from a recent race at SAR. The reason was his rider 'appeared' to strike his horse 10 times during the running of a recent race. I asked my friend to clarify if he was contacted by NY or HISA stewards. He told me they introduced themselves as HISA stewards and the call came from KY.
They had scheduled a zoom hearing with him yesterday (Sunday) at noon. The zoom meeting never occurred and he was not NOT contacted by HISA of any cancellation. Typical government response. My friend told me he was being interviewed on the Steve Byk show this morning to talk about this incident.
I'm interested to find out how the interview went what happened to the HISA stews. I can assure you that if HISA had conducted the zoom session and my friend would not have joined the meeting he would immediately lost the purse.
I spoke to my friend Todd today and he and Steve decided not to have him interviewed until his issue with HISA plays out and is resolved. I'll let know when this occurs.
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Old 08-30-2022, 11:04 AM   #38
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Does anyone know how much a whip is used in training a horse before all these whip rules came into place ?

When handicapping a race how does one incorporate the new whip rules ?
Every rider just about carrys one in the morning. But they’re really not using it to raise up and slash the horse. That’s the problem with people crying about the whipping. Tapping the horse or better yet flagging the horse where it’s held in front of its nose in their vision are the cues they use. No animal should be whipped hard or flogged but the crop is definitely part of racing and anyone that doesn’t believe that the horses themselves have a competitive spirit …… well, that’s just ridiculous. I can see someone being called to the carpet for repetitive, raising and slashing but much of this stuff is just bull shit. Now, with all the problems the game has made……. For its self. Here comes the government and concessions. Which you could see the warning signs for years. The response was all talk and excuses for ever. So, reap what you sow.

The harness track is down the street they pretty much have real whips. You have to or it won’t reach the horse. They hit them but not many times or they’ll crack (swish) , (pull the ear plugs) so the horse hears it. But the best move is when we say “tickle him home” (with the very thin end) the guy barely hits the horse. It’s just a way to tell them . This is it, give you’re last bit to get home . What’s next ? Mental abuse therapy for hoses? And if this ever affects the pay out of a race . Like people are suggesting. What a cluster fck this will be. As if the owners are lined up now to enter horses. You really gotta wonder ….. not just about this game. But the world we are becoming. Bow, for I am Big Brother. There’s always going to be bad people in any business or in this world. That’s just reality. But overwhelmingly most of these people care about their horses well being. Racing never learned to properly clamp down on bad actors and at times looked the other way . Welcome to the US Blues .,,,

Last edited by burnsy; 08-30-2022 at 11:19 AM.
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Old 08-30-2022, 11:45 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by burnsy View Post
Every rider just about carrys one in the morning. But they’re really not using it to raise up and slash the horse. That’s the problem with people crying about the whipping. Tapping the horse or better yet flagging the horse where it’s held in front of its nose in their vision are the cues they use. No animal should be whipped hard or flogged but the crop is definitely part of racing and anyone that doesn’t believe that the horses themselves have a competitive spirit …… well, that’s just ridiculous. I can see someone being called to the carpet for repetitive, raising and slashing but much of this stuff is just bull shit. Now, with all the problems the game has made……. For its self. Here comes the government and concessions. Which you could see the warning signs for years. The response was all talk and excuses for ever. So, reap what you sow.

The harness track is down the street they pretty much have real whips. You have to or it won’t reach the horse. They hit them but not many times or they’ll crack it so the horse hears it. But the best move is when we say “tickle him home” the guy barely hits the horse. It’s just a way to tell them . This is it, give you’re last bit to get home . What’s next ? Mental abuse therapy for hoses? And if this ever affects the pay out of a race . Like people are suggesting. What a cluster fck this will be. As if the owners are lined up now to enter horses. You really gotta wonder ….. not just about this game. But the world we are becoming. Bow, for I am Big Brother. There’s always going to be bad people in any business or in this world. That’s just reality. But overwhelmingly most of these people care about their horses well being. Racing never learned to properly clamp down on bad actors and at times looked the other way . Welcome to the US Blues .,,,
The HISA crop rules will NEVER impact the pari-mutuel payouts for a race. The rules in the HISA handbook, which I've read cover to cover, several times, make it clear that regardless of the severity of the riding drop violation placings for payoffs WILL NOT be changed.

During the first few weeks the Stewards in Ohio mistakenly took a horse down from a pari-mutuel placing. The following Thursday that matter was discussed on a Nationwide HISA Stewards zoom call and the rule clarified so that could never happen again.

As with anything new there will be growing pains and misunderstanding. HISA has admitted that some of the rules were written in an unclear fashion.

After consulting with boots on the ground Stewards at tracks around the country. Many of those rules have been modified and improved.

I've heard HISA is considering hiring a Chief Steward, not unlike Darrell McHargue in Ca, to serve as a liaison between HISA and the tracks Stewards to ensure proper implementation of the rules.

Recently HISA has started taking applications from anyone who wishes to be a member of a new Horseman's Advisory Board. horsemenadvisory@hisaus.org is the email address should anyone be interested in being included.

I would expect having a few horse PLAYERS would be strongly considered and beneficial to this board. I submitted an application myself and urge some of you, ANDY ASARO, THE LITTLE GUY, DILANESP et al to consider asking for inclusion.

Here's the BOTTOM LINE about HISA. Like it or not. It was enacted by CONGRESS. Meaning it's NOT going away.

It is 100% the future of our game.

IMO there are many positives to the new rules. The biggest and best being when fully up and running the rules IN ALL STATES will be the same. I think you'd be hard pressed to find even one horseman who doesn't think that's a good thing.

There are many other new protocols that I believe can be beneficial to our sport.

Let's try to be open minded and try to make the best of what we all have to work with. Is it perfect? No of course not. Are there some changes to be made. Yes of course. But as I just said. HISA IS THE FUTURE!!

Let's try to make the best of it.
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Old 08-30-2022, 02:15 PM   #40
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Indeed

Quote:
Originally Posted by v j stauffer View Post
The HISA crop rules will NEVER impact the pari-mutuel payouts for a race. The rules in the HISA handbook, which I've read cover to cover, several times, make it clear that regardless of the severity of the riding drop violation placings for payoffs WILL NOT be changed.

During the first few weeks the Stewards in Ohio mistakenly took a horse down from a pari-mutuel placing. The following Thursday that matter was discussed on a Nationwide HISA Stewards zoom call and the rule clarified so that could never happen again.

As with anything new there will be growing pains and misunderstanding. HISA has admitted that some of the rules were written in an unclear fashion.

After consulting with boots on the ground Stewards at tracks around the country. Many of those rules have been modified and improved.

I've heard HISA is considering hiring a Chief Steward, not unlike Darrell McHargue in Ca, to serve as a liaison between HISA and the tracks Stewards to ensure proper implementation of the rules.

Recently HISA has started taking applications from anyone who wishes to be a member of a new Horseman's Advisory Board. horsemenadvisory@hisaus.org is the email address should anyone be interested in being included.

I would expect having a few horse PLAYERS would be strongly considered and beneficial to this board. I submitted an application myself and urge some of you, ANDY ASARO, THE LITTLE GUY, DILANESP et al to consider asking for inclusion.

Here's the BOTTOM LINE about HISA. Like it or not. It was enacted by CONGRESS. Meaning it's NOT going away.

It is 100% the future of our game.

IMO there are many positives to the new rules. The biggest and best being when fully up and running the rules IN ALL STATES will be the same. I think you'd be hard pressed to find even one horseman who doesn't think that's a good thing.

There are many other new protocols that I believe can be beneficial to our sport.

Let's try to be open minded and try to make the best of what we all have to work with. Is it perfect? No of course not. Are there some changes to be made. Yes of course. But as I just said. HISA IS THE FUTURE!!

Let's try to make the best of it.

Well said Vic

Our sport needs minimum standards for its own sake, its about time
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Old 09-01-2022, 07:43 PM   #41
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Old 09-12-2022, 11:57 PM   #42
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Owner May Lose $48,000 Purse

Jockey Drayden Van Dyke has been suspended three days and fined $960 for using the riding crop five strikes over the limit aboard Ruis Racing's Bolt's Broad in the sixth race at Del Mar racetrack in Del Mar, Calif., on Sept. 9.

Under Horseracing Integrity and Safety Authority regulations, penalties for Class 2 riding crop violations (four to nine strikes over the limit of six) also call for the horse to be disqualified from purse earnings.

Winner's share of the $81,000 purse was $48,000.

Van Dyke's suspension is scheduled to run Sept. 17, 18 and 22 but he may participate in designated stakes races on those days.
https://paulickreport.com/news/integ...ay-lose-purse/
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Old 09-13-2022, 12:51 AM   #43
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The offender gets a small fine and days he can take at his leisure while the owner gets 48k? Sure, that will bring owners to the sport.
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Old 09-13-2022, 01:04 AM   #44
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The offender gets a small fine and days he can take at his leisure while the owner gets 48k? Sure, that will bring owners to the sport.
The jock IS also losing his $4,800 share of the win. Yes, lots less than the $48K, but still more than a "small" fine. There are probably purse earnings that would go with those days too - Van Dyke was over 20% at Los Al September Meet last year. So his pocket is a little more affected than "just" the fine. The owner doesn't get suspended.

Still doesn't make the owner penalty right. But there is an argument that the owner doesn't win the race and the lion's share of the purse without the extra strikes, especially with a margin that small.
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Old 09-13-2022, 02:18 AM   #45
Al Gobbi
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The jock IS also losing his $4,800 share of the win. Yes, lots less than the $48K, but still more than a "small" fine. There are probably purse earnings that would go with those days too - Van Dyke was over 20% at Los Al September Meet last year. So his pocket is a little more affected than "just" the fine. The owner doesn't get suspended.

Still doesn't make the owner penalty right. But there is an argument that the owner doesn't win the race and the lion's share of the purse without the extra strikes, especially with a margin that small.
But is it any different though than a horse getting DQ’ed from a win because of interference though? It’s not like the purse gets paid out the next day.

Also letting him serve the days at Los Al (same with Juan Hernandez this week) is an utter joke, the racing is not good and most of the top riders either don’t ride at all or very little at that track anymore.
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