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Old 09-13-2021, 08:22 PM   #211
dilanesp
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Wrong again . The courts have shown over and over again you can't discriminate against someone based on race, sexual orientation or religion or criminal history. OJ was also acquitted.
Show us the law on discrimination against people with criminal history. I'd love to see it.
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Old 09-13-2021, 08:25 PM   #212
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Honestly, I think the positive itself would not have damaged the integrity of the sport nearly as much if it was explained to the general public in terms they could understand that it was a legal therapeutic drug, a very small overage, and not performance enhancing, but he would get due process and be punished appropriately.

Then when I talk to non racing people about the case they wouldn't all think he was juicing horses with all kinds of illegal steroids, EPO, and designer drugs that human athletes sometimes get busted for. He may be, but that's not what this case is about and we have no wire taps or syringes etc to prove that.

But in the haste to convict him because a lot of people want him out of the sport and think he does way worse than just use therapeutics recklessly, the narrative became WAY worse than the reality. The media being more interested in controversy and a story than the facts didn't help much either. Then Baffert became his own worst enemy and enemy of the industry by going on TV, not taking responsibility, and fighting the appropriate suspensions.

The idea should have been to minimize the story and maximize the punishment. Instead it became maximize the story and fight the punishment. Of course it's all Baffert's fault to start, but it has been a debacle.
This isn't right.

The only proper response is NOT to minimize it. You maximize it. "This guy cheated, we accept no excuses, and he needs to find another career" is the ONLY really acceptable narrative given the public hit we took.

Our sport doesn't have any credibility, so nobody will ever believe any claim that it is just an overage. And in any event, an overage in other sports can get you 2 years. That is what we should aspire to.
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Old 09-13-2021, 08:35 PM   #213
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If you have a case, then prosecute. If you don't have enough for a case then Shut up till you do. That is what is pitiful.
You wished for it. Hopefully the DOJ will oblige.
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Old 09-14-2021, 03:47 AM   #214
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Leave presidential politics out of horse racing threads.

Thanks.
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Old 09-14-2021, 06:51 AM   #215
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Our sport doesn't have any credibility, so nobody will ever believe any claim that it is just an overage. And in any event, an overage in other sports can get you 2 years. That is what we should aspire to.
If horse racing want's to gain any credibility not only do you tell Baffert to hit the road, you tell trainers like Asmussen, Brown, Oneil, Pletcher and the long list of other trainers with multiple violations to hit the road. Anything less than that and no one will believe horse racing is genuinely trying to clean up the sport.

The United States Anti-Doping Agency likes to drop the hammer and did so just a few days ago.

https://www.usada.org/sanction/andre...ing-violation/
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Old 09-14-2021, 09:04 AM   #216
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If horse racing want's to gain any credibility not only do you tell Baffert to hit the road, you tell trainers like Asmussen, Brown, Oneil, Pletcher and the long list of other trainers with multiple violations to hit the road. Anything less than that and no one will believe horse racing is genuinely trying to clean up the sport.

The United States Anti-Doping Agency likes to drop the hammer and did so just a few days ago.

https://www.usada.org/sanction/andre...ing-violation/
7 years for a second offense is totally fair. The fact that horse racing regulators CAN'T IMAGINE doing something like that is precisely the problem.
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Old 09-14-2021, 09:50 AM   #217
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If you don't think the jury can disregard the law for personal bias, you have some growing up to do.
Of course they can but that's the justice system which you don't seem to understand. You might think someone is guilty but others may not. There are are a lot of people charged but never prosecuted because there is not enough evidence to prove guilt.
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Old 09-14-2021, 09:51 AM   #218
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Wrong! Once Baffert gets gotten others will change.
So naive
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Old 09-14-2021, 09:58 AM   #219
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I don't necessarily disagree with you about your views on Baffert. I do believe, however, that magnitude is important in all crimes. A violation in the KD is far more detrimental than a violation in a 10K claimer.
The only reason why is because the high profile of the Derby. It shouldn't matter when in actuality the low claimers are the ones that break down more often and are treated much worse by trainers because they need them to run every 3 weeks. The top horses are treated with kid gloves and get the best care. The black eye before Baffert's overage were all the breakdowns at Santa Anita and those were mostly claimers who probably shouldn't have been racing or trainers ignored their condition in order to get them to run.
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Old 09-14-2021, 10:10 AM   #220
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Doping horses and abusing children are in fact highly analogous.

Part of what underlies your position is that you don't seem to care about the welfare of the animals or the fact that a trainer has an obligation not to give them dangerous, illegal substances.

This is not just a game and about who wins the races- doping is a huge betrayal of this sport's obligation to the innocent animals who run so hard for our entertainment.

It's exactly like the child abusing babysitter.
I am very interested in the animals well being. You're so wrong in this case. The drug given to Medina Spirit is not dangerous. It's therapeutic also not illegal. It's only illegal if administered a certain time frame before a race. I'm more interested in the low level claimers that are abused by running them every weeks and doping them up with performance enhancing drugs so the can. Throw in the low level claimers being shipped tp Puerto Rico in small shipping containers. The issues lie at the bottom of the sport, not at the top, but you don't seem to care about those animals. I have no qualms with Baffert being suspended but for 2 years is ridiculous. Other trainers do the same thing if not worse and get small suspensions and small fines. That's my issue.
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Old 09-14-2021, 10:18 AM   #221
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This isn't right.

The only proper response is NOT to minimize it. You maximize it. "This guy cheated, we accept no excuses, and he needs to find another career" is the ONLY really acceptable narrative given the public hit we took.

Our sport doesn't have any credibility, so nobody will ever believe any claim that it is just an overage. And in any event, an overage in other sports can get you 2 years. That is what we should aspire to.
The reason the sport took such a big hit was because it wasn't communicated well and Baffert made a mistake going on TV.

Right now when I talk to people that only casually follow the sport, they think the horse was juiced with steroids, EPO, designer drugs etc..

I think you are crazy if you think that's the result the industry should want (maximize it).

What you want is to tell the truth and make sure people understand it.

You want to make sure they understand exactly what the horse tested positive for, what it is used for, that it is a legal therapeutic overage, that it was a very small amount, that Baffert will get due process, and that the punishment will fit the crime. The end.

I have to agree with the posters here that think "Baffert hate" is impacting the thinking. Set aside suspicions. Those are irrelevant until you find a syringe loaded with an illegal substance, someone whistle blows on him, or they find a serious positive. He had what is typically a slap on the wrist positive, but he has a history of them, this was the Derby, and he's being a pain in the ass about it. So the punishment will and should be more severe. But the communication was still a debacle.
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Old 09-14-2021, 10:19 AM   #222
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Show us the law on discrimination against people with criminal history. I'd love to see it.
Federal EEO laws prohibit employers from discriminating when they use criminal history information. If a convicted felon walks into a restaurant how would the owner know? Do they have their mug shot on their shirt?
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Old 09-14-2021, 10:29 AM   #223
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7 years for a second offense is totally fair. The fact that horse racing regulators CAN'T IMAGINE doing something like that is precisely the problem.
If they catch any of the guys whose names are being tossed around with an illegal drug positive (as opposed to therapeutic drug positive), imo they'll be tossed from the game.

I told a story earlier in the thread of a horse I own that was tested pre race because he was a 4yo making his first start. He came up positive for the equivalent of a horse aspirin. There was mix up on the schedule for when he was going to race and be tested. Had he not been tested pre race, it's possible he would have tested positive post race. I don't know enough to know, but it was 100% innocent. Horses are regularly treated with therapeutics. Things can happen. IMO, you should consider the history when dishing out fines and suspensions, but you can't go overboard either.
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Old 09-14-2021, 10:48 AM   #224
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I am very interested in the animals well being. You're so wrong in this case. The drug given to Medina Spirit is not dangerous. It's therapeutic also not illegal.
You actually have no idea what was given to Medina Spirit. The only thing you have is what the liar Bob Baffert SAYS was given to him.

And you also have no idea whether it was any sort of legitimate therapy, or purely for performance enhancement. You only know what the liar Bob Baffert SAYS on that subject.

You are saying things as fact that are credited to one source, a man who we shouldn't believe about anything. If Bob Baffert said the sun is out, I'd look up anyway.
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Old 09-14-2021, 10:50 AM   #225
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I have to agree with the posters here that think "Baffert hate" is impacting the thinking. Set aside suspicions. Those are irrelevant until you find a syringe loaded with an illegal substance, someone whistle blows on him, or they find a serious positive. He had what is typically a slap on the wrist positive, but he has a history of them, this was the Derby, and he's being a pain in the ass about it. So the punishment will and should be more severe. But the communication was still a debacle.
My position has nothing to do with Baffert hate. My position is that in other sports, a first offense is 2 years and a second offense is a lifetime ban, and the result of that is that a lot of people are far more afraid to dope than they are in horse racing.

I think similar rules would be good for the sport of horse racing. It's not about Bob Baffert specifically. I supported the 10 year ban for Rick Dutrow too. I support everything that is happening to Servis and Navarro. It has nothing to do with any one person. I just think that the only rule that deters doping is one that doesn't allow trainers any room for explanation- the trainer's job is to find a way for this stuff to NEVER get in the horses' system, and to leave the sport when they fail to do it.
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