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Old 03-23-2019, 04:40 PM   #46
Suff
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Who says that?.
Me.

I'm a novice, but hear me out. Looking at a chart today, I saw an expensive horse that had run 8 times. From Mdswt at gulfstream to an 8K N2L at a feeder track. Top to bottom in 8 lifetime races.

So he's not long for racing. Then, I wondered how many hit-n-run racing careers are like this? Its likely a big number.


"most don't"

I have heard that said in general from time to time. And the Jockey club stats on foals show 65% make it to a race. yes? Maybe not, I just googled it. You'd know better.



My math is wrong?

I'm spit balling the topic and my words. My point is that because I cannot control how horses are treated , I'm trying to compartmentalize my thoughts and feelings around it.

Because among the many thoughts that I have is .. Eating horse meat, or otherwise extracting value from an animal? Many Indians are horrified that we eat Cows.

Its a big world, and if horse meat feeds people, so what? Maybe its good? Even as a delicacy.

Our American culture places a higher value on domesticated animals.
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Old 03-23-2019, 08:48 PM   #47
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The dangers of the drug were always obvious. What it did immediately was make a horse not feel bone pain because it stopped the remodeling that created the bone pain. There's no horseman out there who doesn't hear that one sentence and know how dangerous that makes this drug. No vet or trainer has any excuse at all for ever using this drug with a horse in training.

There are cases of horses who haven't started remodeling correctly fourteen months after administration.

I've been telling people about this drug and how damning it is since I learned of it early last year. As usual, racing waits until a crisis hits to react.
where did you hear about these cases of horses who haven't started remodeling correctly fourteen months later
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Old 03-23-2019, 08:51 PM   #48
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it's like that because 95% of horses aren't allowance horses but the owners insist they are until you show them they aren't. That's why they start at Mdspwt. and work their way down. Owners see those huge purses for their maidens and they think their unraced horses are awesome so of course they start there.
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Old 03-24-2019, 12:26 AM   #49
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I have come across two interesting anecdotes in scientific discussion about bisphosphonates:
An orthopedic physician said he normally treats patients who have broken their femur (thigh bone) with 2 months no weight bearing and 2 months crutches. For those who have taken bisphosphonates, he has found it necessary to prescribe 8 months no weight and 8 months crutches.
A veterinarian recently gave a seminar on bisphosphonates, during which he asked how many attendees had used the drug; five raised hands. After the meeting, he was approached by about 25 other vets, asking whether there was a test for the drug. I am fascinated by this second group. Were they concerned about their equine patients' possible exposure or were they trying to find out if the drug could be used without getting a positive?
Based upon many years of horse race experience, my guess is it was about 50-50.
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Old 03-24-2019, 10:27 AM   #50
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I have come across two interesting anecdotes in scientific discussion about bisphosphonates:
An orthopedic physician said he normally treats patients who have broken their femur (thigh bone) with 2 months no weight bearing and 2 months crutches. For those who have taken bisphosphonates, he has found it necessary to prescribe 8 months no weight and 8 months crutches.
A veterinarian recently gave a seminar on bisphosphonates, during which he asked how many attendees had used the drug; five raised hands. After the meeting, he was approached by about 25 other vets, asking whether there was a test for the drug. I am fascinated by this second group. Were they concerned about their equine patients' possible exposure or were they trying to find out if the drug could be used without getting a positive?
Based upon many years of horse race experience, my guess is it was about 50-50.
well it is possible they wanted to know if there was a test so that if they encountered horses that were recent purchases by their clients, they could determine if they had been given the drug since it changes the way they remedy bone issues. I'm sure some were probably what your thinking but there are also no doubt other reasons too.
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Old 03-24-2019, 05:57 PM   #51
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I am confused, is bisphospnates only available at Santa Anita, just going by the title of the thread?
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Old 03-24-2019, 06:31 PM   #52
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No. Not just Santa Anita. (It's an industry-wide problem.)

Here's an article by Ray Paulick that I posted back on page 2 of this thread:

by Ray Paulick | 03.21.2019 | 2:57pm
View From The Eighth Pole: Take Action Now On Bisphosphonate Use:
https://www.paulickreport.com/news/r...osphonate-use/

Quote:
The Paulick Report recently received a message from a Florida veterinarian, who asked to remain anonymous, concerning the troubling increase in fatal injuries sustained by horses at Santa Anita, “In my opinion, Santa Anita's recent breakdowns may have less to do with the track and more to do with the rampant use of bisphosphonates,” the veterinarian wrote.

“I am an equine only veterinarian and work primarily on Thoroughbreds in training. In our practice, we have seen an almost ten-fold increase in catastrophic breakdowns and large long bone stress fractures (humeral/femoral/physeal) in our 2-year-old in training horses (both sales and race-prepping clients).

“These drugs are widely used prior to the yearling sales in Kentucky to supposedly decrease certain radiographic findings, despite these drugs only being FDA approved for the use in horses 5 years of age and older. The scariest part about bisphosphonates is that no one knows the half-life of the drugs in horses. In humans, the half-life can be up to 10 years.
--and:
Quote:
The British are way ahead of us with their rules. According to a British Horseracing Authority rule adopted in 2017, bisphosphonates may not be used in horses until they are 42 months old. Horses who have been treated inappropriately with the drug will receive a lifetime ban from racing, presumably because of the inherent dangers of a drug that can be released over an extended period of time.

From an ethical standpoint, there doesn't need to be any discussion until research proves it is safe to give young horses with growing bones (which seems doubtful, given the drug package warning and comments by such respected veterinarians as Dr. Larry Bramlage).

Quite simply, when it comes to young racehorses, STOP USING BISPHOSPHONATES. Stop using it to defraud auction buyers and stop putting horses' lives at risk on the racetrack or at training centers.

Now that we have that problem solved, there is one other small issue to consider: what to do with the hundreds or possibly thousands of Thoroughbreds that may have been treated with this drug in an “off-label” manner in recent years? Do we just allow potential carnage to continue at a time when racing – as a result of the spike in fatalities due to broken bones at Santa Anita – is under a national media microscope and public sentiment is almost certainly turning against the sport as a result? Or does the industry actually do something other than form committees and issue statements?

Santa Anita, incidentally, is not the only place to have experienced an increase in fatal injuries. The Kentucky Horse Racing Commission expressed concerns about an increase in 2018 fatalities, and the Paulick Report has received multiple calls from horsemen based at Oaklawn Park this year saying there has been an increase in catastrophic injuries during racing and training at the Arkansas racetrack. (Oaklawn Park does not provide statistics to the Equine Injury Database, so there will be no way to confirm those suspicions). One trainer who called the Paulick Report said he has witnessed horses suffer a kind of injury this year unlike anything he has seen in a half century on the track, and he does not attribute it to the racing surface.

In the world of air travel, when Boeing manufactures a new jet that sustains not one, but two, unexplained crashes, the Federal Aviation Administration grounds that jet – until it can confirm there is no safety issue.

Horseracing has no Federation Aviation Administration.

Racing does have a collection of state regulatory agencies, some with more enforcement powers than others. Those agencies would be derelict in their duty if they did not set forth emergency rules on the “off-label” use of bisphosphonates and demand veterinary records of all licensed veterinarians practicing on racehorses in their state. Young horses treated with bisphosphonates must be identified and placed in an “at risk” category.

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Last edited by Jeff P; 03-24-2019 at 06:38 PM.
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Old 03-24-2019, 09:08 PM   #53
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I think more attention should be paid to the breakdown rate in Kentucky. Here is a recent article from Louisville triggered by the SA mess: https://www.courier-journal.com/stor...ky/3078859002/


"statistics show 36 thoroughbreds sustained fatal race-related injuries in Kentucky in 2018. This was the state’s highest total since 2007 and, at 2.39 per 1,000 starts, an average Scollay (Ky state vet) described as “unprecedented.” The mortality rate was higher still at Churchill Downs, where veterinarians' reports showed 16 race-related fatalities in 5,856 starts (2.73 per 1,000 starts), with eight more fatalities in training....*****Scollay cautioned that training fatalities are likely understated because the data is drawn only from live race meets with veterinary staffing on site.*****" Note: 2017 death rate was 1.33.

.

At Santa Anita, there is no missing of deaths, so the actual KY death rate is surely worse than LA. Interesting that the death rate at Ky Downs (all turf) was very high just like SA, which, for me, indicates that all this main track panic is useless.
Kentucky has been doing necropsies on all the horses, and they have said bone chips were sent for analysis of bisphosphonates, yet there has been no report of results. I have found literally hundreds of scientific articles which discuss the concentration of bisphosphonates in bones, plus I earlier linked to the actual method. It is fair to conclude that finding the drug in bones is not difficult, yet still no reports.
I find the final quote intriguing: "Scollay said she has developed some speculations on the source of the problem, but that those theories were not far enough advanced to be shared publicly. The search for answers is ongoing, but it isn’t easy". Come on now. Reveal those test results for bisphosphonates. If they are not present, then we can cross out one possibility, but judging by all the hullabaloo last week in Maryland, I have my doubts.
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Old 03-24-2019, 10:03 PM   #54
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where did you hear about these cases of horses who haven't started remodeling correctly fourteen months later
Bramlage said in article.
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Old 03-24-2019, 10:11 PM   #55
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Hollendorfer strikes again. He had 2 of the 22 fatalities and now Gunmetal is out with a bone break after working this morning. May or may not have to do with Bisphosphonates. The horse just raced last Saturday out of state yet worked back already?
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Old 03-25-2019, 08:48 AM   #56
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Bramlage said in article.
thanks. back to the subject. Is there any data out there on the number of breakdowns per track per year for lets say, the last twenty years?
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Old 03-25-2019, 09:34 AM   #57
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thanks. back to the subject. Is there any data out there on the number of breakdowns per track per year for lets say, the last twenty years?
Don’t think so. The injury reporting project started around 8 years ago with participating tracks. That data has been quoted in some of the articles about this and I think you can find the database at the JC site.

Oaklawn is another which is rumored to have a big spike in fatalities while the trainers don’t think the track surface is an issue.
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Old 03-25-2019, 09:41 AM   #58
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in all honesty without a comprehensive list of breakdowns on tracks throughout the country the industry is just guessing. Back when I trained there was always talk about periods of high numbers of break downs at certain tracks and then it just went back to normal. Nobody really thought much about it at the time, it was just something that happens unfortunately. I would assume the state's vets at each track would have to have some records for the past twenty years. It would be very interesting if someone could dig this up for all the tracks and look at it before people start really going overboard on this whole thing. Today's social media really exposes every little detail and that wasn't the case before. So it's really hard to make a solid judgement on things like this. Just my thoughts on the matter.
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Old 03-25-2019, 05:28 PM   #59
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We can add Turf Paradise to the list of tracks with with an explosion in death rates. Here is a recent report:https://www.azcentral.com/story/news...te/2585283002/

They have tried everything in Arizona: close examination of the racing surface; avoiding rain-soaked conditions; more intensive pre-race vet exams (sound familiar Californians)......."So far this season, according to Gaming Department records, there have been 22 catastrophic injuries — on pace for another record year."
We now have a similar pattern in 3 different states, plus suspicions in Arkansas. Given all efforts to date, I think it is fair to say that the racing surfaces are not the problem; however, I admit that it will be impossible to 100% prove the cause.
Consider cigarettes and lung cancer. Today, after 60 years, the causal relationship is accepted (but still not 100% proven b/c of the nature of the situation). There were 2 parts to this conclusion: (!) pharmacologic evidence that the agents in cigarette smoke can cause cancer in lab animals; and (2) the epidemiological association of smoking to lung cancer. Now look at the possible relationship between bisphosphonates and breakdowns. We know the pharmacology is strong. The drug is proven to weaken bone structure, and lasts a long time with just one dose. Right now there is zero epidemiology. We are not being told what levels were present on autopsy. i realize, just like with my smoking analogy, finding bisphosphonates in breakdown bones is not 100% proof (for instance, we know nothing about the drug's bone prevalence in the general horse population), so all these officials can take cover in uncertainty. It took decades with cigarettes, but the more info the better......and racing cannot survive a continued epidemic.
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Old 03-25-2019, 11:33 PM   #60
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NYRA tracks stats for past 5 years
A = Aqueduct, B= Belmont, S= Saratoga

2014
A - 23
B - 42
S - 14
Total 79

2015
A - 21
B - 25
S - 13
Total 59

2016
A - 11
B - 40
S - 16
Total 67

2017
A - 17
B - 40
S - 21
Total 75

2018
A - 15
B - 29
S - 13
Total 57

5 year total is 337 deaths for an average of 67 deaths a year.

2019
A - 4
B - 8
S - na

https://breakdown.gaming.ny.gov/
search the above link by year. Make sure to check the equine deaths only other wise they give you injured horses who didnt die.
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