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Old 03-25-2019, 12:08 AM   #76
Lemon Drop Husker
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Originally Posted by Clocker View Post
Public opinion proves nothing about the reality of the economy. A reality that you ignore in favor of petty little personal slams like those above.

Trump inherited an economy that had seven years of growth under Obama. Under Obama, not because of Obama. The economy continues to be strong under Trump, not because of Trump.

If you want to challenge that, please reply with facts, not chippy little name calling.

What measure of the economy would you want to discuss?



DOW?
Stock Market?
401Ks?
Jobs?
Unemployment?
Trucking?
Tech?
Consumer index?


What would you like to discuss?
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Old 03-25-2019, 12:20 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by Clocker View Post
Public opinion proves nothing about the reality of the economy. A reality that you ignore in favor of petty little personal slams like those above.

Trump inherited an economy that had seven years of growth under Obama. Under Obama, not because of Obama. The economy continues to be strong under Trump, not because of Trump.

If you want to challenge that, please reply with facts, not chippy little name calling.

There is zero doubt the tax cuts increased the intrinsic value of American business (after tax profits rose and justified higher prices). You'd have tough time convincing me that didn't have a stimulative impact either through the wealth effect or the increased cash flow that went somewhere (even if some of it went towards share repurchases which in turn justified higher prices).

Whether you agree with his intervention or not, there's no question that all the brow beating of American companies he has done kept some jobs here that would have otherwise left and added others.

There's little doubt all the roll backs of regulations have been stimulative in the areas that were given relief.

Whatever the economy would have done, it has been better in the short term for a variety of reasons related to his policy.

Countering that is trade.

We don't know how that's going to end yet. The tariffs are a short term negative, but the intent is to get better trade deals with Mexico/Canada, China and other countries and also better protection for intellectual property. We may not know for awhile whether he has won the long game.
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Old 03-25-2019, 12:20 AM   #78
ElKabong
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Originally Posted by Clocker View Post
Public opinion proves nothing about the reality of the economy. A reality that you ignore in favor of petty little personal slams like those above.

Trump inherited an economy that had seven years of growth under Obama. Under Obama, not because of Obama. The economy continues to be strong under Trump, not because of Trump.

If you want to challenge that, please reply with facts, not chippy little name calling.
I can reply with facts on a personal level.

I left my old job in July 2016 to strike out on my own. The job market *sucked*, my inbox for LinkedIn as well as contacts from recruiters was pretty much non existent. You can say we had "growth" under Obama's admin, but I'd venture a guess it was for people that flipped burgers.

Fast fwd to spring 2017, and still goes on today. I'm getting multiple emails daily from recruiters with feelers for openings (pertaining to my former profession). They're absolutely begging for talent right now. My inbox on LinkedIn has at least some feeler every day (for what I currently do.)

To say we haven't seen a jump in the economy since trump took over and created a new sense of freedoms for business / free enterprise , would be less than honest. I can tell you for a fact, the two business my wife and I run have benefitted from the current admin.
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Old 03-25-2019, 12:44 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by fast4522 View Post
Clocker, so in essence what your saying is when President Donald J. Trump wins again in 2020 we can thank Obama.
You clearly have reading comprehension problems. What I said was that the economy turned around during the Obama administration, with no evidence that it was because of him, and has continued to grow for the last 7 years of the Obama administration, and that the growth continued under the Trump administration.

What I also said was that Trump has done nothing yet to have any impact on that growth path, good or bad. And that no Trump fan boyz here have provided evidence to the contrary.
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Old 03-25-2019, 12:51 AM   #80
Clocker
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Originally Posted by Lemon Drop Husker View Post
What measure of the economy would you want to discuss?

DOW?
Stock Market?
401Ks?
Jobs?
Unemployment?
Trucking?
Tech?
Consumer index?
What would you like to discuss?
What growth in measures of the economy can you show was attributable to new policies instituted by Trump? I am not talking about improvement in consumer or business sentiment because Trump beat Hillary, I am talking about policy changes instituted by the president.
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Old 03-25-2019, 01:02 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by Clocker View Post
Public opinion proves nothing about the reality of the economy. A reality that you ignore in favor of petty little personal slams like those above.


Trump inherited an economy that had seven years of growth under Obama. Under Obama, not because of Obama. The economy continues to be strong under Trump, not because of Trump.

If you want to challenge that, please reply with facts, not chippy little name calling.
I included links to the snarky little slams YOU posted earlier on here. I even made it easy for those that are lazy and provided a few quoted paragraphs to make it even easier, especially for you.

So whine all you want and claim I only made personal attacks. It won't work. People on here know better. And they can read! You are the one with the chippy little nonsense name calling.

I dismissed your Obama economy 'growth' vs. Trump's countless times before. I am still waiting for YOUR explanation on how Obama's <2 per cent annual GDP growth is better than Trump's >3+ annual GDP growth record. You ignored that request at least twice before.

You also ignored the fact that Obama's 'growth' economy lost 300,000 manufacturing jobs during his tenure and Trump has created about 600,000 such jobs -- and over 5.5 million total jobs in only 2 + years as President.

Here's one more article in addition to the two I linked here earlier. Don't forget to pass it along to all the Trump bashing fanboys you hang with:

Quote:
American employers posted nearly 7.6 million open jobs in January, one million more jobs than the U.S. has officially unemployed people.

That nearly matched the record high set in November and confirmed the very strong jobs numbers reported in January, when payrolls reportedly grew by 311,000.

Friday’s report also revised December upward, with 7.479 million openings compared to the initial report of 7.335 million.

https://www.breitbart.com/economy/20...-by-1-million/
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Old 03-25-2019, 01:02 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by Clocker View Post
You clearly have reading comprehension problems. What I said was that the economy turned around during the Obama administration, with no evidence that it was because of him, and has continued to grow for the last 7 years of the Obama administration, and that the growth continued under the Trump administration.

What I also said was that Trump has done nothing yet to have any impact on that growth path, good or bad. And that no Trump fan boyz here have provided evidence to the contrary.
Look,

ElKabong says "I can tell you for a fact, the two business my wife and I run have benefitted from the current admin."

These are real people that have to go out every day and earn, I can't comment on you but it is very likely that you will not vote the same way. So I ask you if this as good as it gets, pushing that narrative?

Last edited by fast4522; 03-25-2019 at 01:05 AM.
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Old 03-25-2019, 01:09 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by fast4522 View Post
Look,

ElKabong says "I can tell you for a fact, the two business my wife and I run have benefitted from the current admin."

The fact that they did well during the current administration is not proof that they did well because of the current administration. Maybe so, maybe not. No evidence presented.
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Old 03-25-2019, 01:52 AM   #84
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Here are two articles that might help to shed some light on how individual presidential policies can and do affect the growth or decline of the U.S economy:

Economic Growth, Its Measurements, Causes, and Effects

Quote:
The government stimulates growth with expansive fiscal policy. It either spends more, cuts taxes, or both. Since politicians want to get re-elected, they use expansive fiscal policy to stimulate the economy.
Expansionary Fiscal Policy and How It Affects You

Quote:
Examples

The Trump administration used expansionary policy with the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act. He's also increased discretionary spending, especially for defense. Military spending increased to a record $885 billion.

The Obama administration used expansionary policy with the Economic Stimulus Act. The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act cut taxes, extended unemployment benefits, and funded public works projects. In 2010, Obama continued many of these benefits with the Obama tax cuts. He also increased defense spending. All this occurred while tax receipts dropped, thanks to the 2008 financial crisis. That's why the national debt increased so much under Obama.

The Bush administration used expansive fiscal policy to end the 2001 recession. It cut income taxes with the Economic Growth and Tax Relief Reconciliation Act, which mailed out tax rebates. But the 9/11 terrorist attacks sent the economy back into a downturn. Bush launched the War on Terror. He cut business taxes in 2003 with the Jobs and Growth Tax Relief Reconciliation Act. By 2004, the economy was in good shape, with unemployment at just 5.4 percent. But Bush continued expansionary policy by starting the War in Iraq.

President John F. Kennedy used expansionary policy to stimulate the economy out of the 1960 recession. He promised to sustain the policy until the recession was over, regardless of the impact on the debt.

President Franklin D. Roosevelt used expansionary policy to end the Great Depression. At first, it worked. But then FDR reduced New Deal spending to keep the budget balanced. That allowed the Depression to reappear in 1932. Roosevelt returned to expansionary fiscal policy to gear up for World War II. That massive spending finally ended the Depression.
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Old 03-25-2019, 02:17 AM   #85
ElKabong
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The fact that they did well during the current administration is not proof that they did well because of the current administration. Maybe so, maybe not. No evidence presented.
Since you have the need to be held by the hand in order to comprehend the obvious, I'm here to help.

My energy sales and consultation business.
Many existing customers have come back to me stating they're ready for upgrades to LED and other energy saving measures. I always ask "just curious, why are you looking into this now, and not when we signed the energy agreement"? It just made sense to begin at the time of the Agreement signage

Answer is almost always that they have more capital to invest in improvements, money that wasn't available until tax breaks. Most of my clients run multiple very small businesses. Every dollar counts. Now, almost a third of my clients that sign or renew agreements are immediately looking to invest in improvements / upgrades.

As for the chess business, tax breaks for families are a big help to our business. Parents have a little more expendable income...But... The biggest thing, the economy here is running on all cylinders for the upper middle class. A lot of our kids parents are doing better now than ever. That's just a fact.

Many have bought more expensive homes (and asked us to begin classes in their new areas of DFW.) Prior to us expanding our business at our customers insistence, we ran two locations and had about 40-50 kids per week. It was more of a hobby than an all out business. Now we're in five locations, plus we are in two after school programs. Weekly we now have over 200 kids per week in classes ($10 net per student) from our 15 total classes we hold. In addition we run several summer chess camps (already at capacity for this summer) hold seven tournaments a year.

A lot of that was hard work, and being focused on the customer needs. Two years ago could this have been possible? Not on your life, pal. We have to strike while the economy is hot and we know it. We know our business.

Go ahead. Deny reality. Won't bother me a bit
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Old 03-25-2019, 02:22 AM   #86
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I dismissed your Obama economy "growth" vs. Trump's countless times before. I am still waiting for YOUR explanation on how Obama's <2 per cent annual GDP growth is better than Trump's >3+ annual GDP growth record. You ignored that request at least twice before.
Neither can be claimed as Obama's growth record or Trump's growth record. Attributing those numbers to either is nonsense. Neither did anything significant enough to influence those numbers. But certainly early growth in the business cycle contributes to more growth later in the cycle. Your reference to them indicates an ignorance of economics too deep to address.

My "Econ 101" students knew better at the end of the first six weeks of the semester. Maybe you should take an "Intro to Econ" course to catch up on the reality of the discipline. God knows Trump should do the same.
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Old 03-25-2019, 07:43 AM   #87
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Clocker is a never Trumper. As such, he’ll battle on any point favorable to Trump. I found it interesting that he never responded to Classhandicappers post, which was spot on. Trump’s policies have lifted the economy in every area except trade, and it’s to be seen how that end. I suspect favorably.
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Old 03-25-2019, 08:56 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage View Post
I know I'm late to this...but man, you went personal SO SOON...and after being called CHAMP...I know...he sure deserved it...

News lately must be a real downer...reverse VIAGRA for certain folks around here...I get it...

It's like Election 2016 all over again. Massive disappointment, shock and dismay....
Hoss likes to continually lower the bar in regard to standards here
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Old 03-25-2019, 09:03 AM   #89
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The industry I'm in went from laying people off two years ago to can't hire them fast enough today. I can't even count the number of new jobs and actually new positions that have been added. And it's happening with all the companies around here. In this town of about 40K people there are roughly 2500 job openings. That's a bunch. And these are all $25 an hour minimum jobs. Most over $35 an hour.
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Old 03-25-2019, 09:14 AM   #90
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Here we go, class act. How much tissue and ice are you going through. I would bet a lot. Your post are screaming, tears and very chapped backside. Skin like a peach. Gotta be rough, being so tender.
Hey he posted about it, not me.

You still don’t get it though. The true snowflakes are the guys like you here. No substance to any of your posts EVER and you’re always on tilt. That’s why you always react.



Class act
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