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12-19-2017, 07:57 AM
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#31
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cj
Let's start with calling it a 16 million dollar race when almost half of that isn't even in play. Next, they couldn't sell the slots. So instead, Stronach "buys" them himself and will sell them off. So others had to pay full price, and the others come later will get a discount, probably a big discount. Next year why would anybody buy a slot? Just wait to Frank buys them again and pay him 10 cents on the dollar.
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He "buys" them himself? Are you trying to imply that he isn't going to have to come up with the $1m for each slot? He will, because it goes to the purse. He's going to work deals as best he can, just like any slot holder. If you think this bodes poorly for the future of his race, fine, but it's a stand-up move that he bought the remaining slots to guarantee the purse for the other slot holders.
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12-19-2017, 09:39 AM
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#32
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,828
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fager Fan
He "buys" them himself? Are you trying to imply that he isn't going to have to come up with the $1m for each slot? He will, because it goes to the purse. He's going to work deals as best he can, just like any slot holder. If you think this bodes poorly for the future of his race, fine, but it's a stand-up move that he bought the remaining slots to guarantee the purse for the other slot holders.
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I wasn't implying that at all. What else was he going to do, cancel the race? Why did you ignore the point I started with, that calling it a 16 million dollar race is a farce?
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12-19-2017, 10:05 AM
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#33
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: NJ
Posts: 5,851
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cj
I wasn't implying that at all. What else was he going to do, cancel the race? Why did you ignore the point I started with, that calling it a 16 million dollar race is a farce?
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He may also have bought those last slots so one individual couldn't put a horse in the race
who was made famous over the summer starring in a youtube video, aka the Vegetable juice man!
__________________
Remember the NJ horseman got you here now do the right thing with the purses!
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12-19-2017, 11:57 AM
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#34
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 4,553
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2017 Article
Not much on internet about the conditions of the Pegasus, but here is one of last years article for reference.
http://www.drf.com/news/daring-dozen...asus-world-cup
Last edited by VigorsTheGrey; 12-19-2017 at 12:00 PM.
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12-19-2017, 02:28 PM
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#35
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cj
I wasn't implying that at all. What else was he going to do, cancel the race? Why did you ignore the point I started with, that calling it a 16 million dollar race is a farce?
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Then why did you put "buy" in quotes? He bought them. He has to pay the $1m each if he can't sell them.
And where do you see that the $16m is a farce? Or that "half of that isn't even at play"? He upped the purse to $16m, with the track adding the additional $4m, so yes, the purse is now $16m.
I don't know the viability of this race long-term, but I hope it works out, and again, I appreciate a track/owner willing to step up like Stronach has in his attempt to make it work. Think Churchill would do the same, given they could easily pay 3 times the purse of the Pegasus to the Kentucky Derby and still make a handsome profit?
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12-19-2017, 06:17 PM
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#36
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 4,553
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" “We will not be getting back zero dollars, that’s for sure,” said Sol Kumin, in reference to the $250,000 purse guarantee and the revenue-sharing provisions."
$250,000 x 12 (for 12 entries) = $3 Million
$16 Million minus $3 Million = $13 Million
So if there are 8 outside entrants that's $2 Million of funds to spread around on pre-race costs, might even pay for a fella to buy in with a few in-house race-starters and figure out how to fund later after all the revenue has been made...lots of ways to wheel & deal.
Last edited by VigorsTheGrey; 12-19-2017 at 06:25 PM.
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12-19-2017, 06:54 PM
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#37
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 4,553
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VigorsTheGrey
" “We will not be getting back zero dollars, that’s for sure,” said Sol Kumin, in reference to the $250,000 purse guarantee and the revenue-sharing provisions."
$250,000 x 12 (for 12 entries) = $3 Million
$16 Million minus $3 Million = $13 Million
So if there are 8 outside entrants that's $2 Million of funds to spread around on pre-race costs, might even pay for a fella to buy in with a few in-house race-starters and figure out how to fund later after all the revenue has been made...lots of ways to wheel & deal.
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Sorry folks, got the above completely wrong....
""Under the structure of the race, each owner of a slot is given the right to start one horse in the Pegasus, which is being advertised as having a purse of $16 million, the largest in the world. The slots are considered marketable until the time of entry. Any horse that starts in the race is guaranteed to receive $650,000 of the purse regardless of finish position.
I think I read somewhere the deposit due in Dec was $350,000 each...
Last edited by VigorsTheGrey; 12-19-2017 at 07:01 PM.
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12-19-2017, 07:25 PM
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#38
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,828
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fager Fan
Then why did you put "buy" in quotes? He bought them. He has to pay the $1m each if he can't sell them.
And where do you see that the $16m is a farce? Or that "half of that isn't even at play"? He upped the purse to $16m, with the track adding the additional $4m, so yes, the purse is now $16m.
I don't know the viability of this race long-term, but I hope it works out, and again, I appreciate a track/owner willing to step up like Stronach has in his attempt to make it work. Think Churchill would do the same, given they could easily pay 3 times the purse of the Pegasus to the Kentucky Derby and still make a handsome profit?
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You don't get it about the purse, and frankly I feel like I'd be wasting my time trying to explain it to you, so I'm moving on.
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12-19-2017, 07:35 PM
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#39
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cj
You don't get it about the purse, and frankly I feel like I'd be wasting my time trying to explain it to you, so I'm moving on.
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That sounds like a spin instead of admitting that you were wrong.
So explain. If you can.
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12-19-2017, 07:43 PM
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#40
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fager Fan
That sounds like a spin instead of admitting that you were wrong.
So explain. If you can.
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If 16 million is in play what would you expect first place to pay?
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12-19-2017, 07:44 PM
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#41
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cj
Let's start with calling it a 16 million dollar race when almost half of that isn't even in play. Next, they couldn't sell the slots. So instead, Stronach "buys" them himself and will sell them off. So others had to pay full price, and the others come later will get a discount, probably a big discount. Next year why would anybody buy a slot? Just wait to Frank buys them again and pay him 10 cents on the dollar.
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You said "almost half of [$16m] isn't even in play." What? There's $12m from the sale of 12 slots, plus $4m put up by the track, so where do you figure "almost half" or almost $8m isn't part of the purse?
Stronach is "buying" the extra slots, despite your implication with the quote marks that he's really not.
Who said anyone is getting a discount, much less a "big discount", much less it going for "10 cents on the dollar" in the future? He may well sell one for $1m, or make a deal that ends up being worth more than $1m. At minimum, he sure won't sell one for less than $650k when the slot is guaranteed that amount, so the "big discount" won't be worth more than a 32% or so discount. Those who did buy the early slots likely have the better horses, so it's not like they're at some big disadvantage.
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12-19-2017, 07:49 PM
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#42
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trips
If 16 million is in play what would you expect first place to pay?
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I hope you aren't trying to argue that payouts different than we're used to seeing means $16m "isn't in play."
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12-20-2017, 12:44 AM
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#43
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 915
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fager Fan
That sounds like a spin instead of admitting that you were wrong.
So explain. If you can.
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Sorry to step in CJ but this is painful to watch so I will try to help & explain to Fager Fan in quick fashion & if he still doesn't get it I will remove myself from this as well:
It costs $1 million to get a slot, 12 slots = $12 million. GP is putting up $4 mil of its own money, making a $16 million purse. Here's the trick though, every single finisher is guaranteed to earn $650,000 so in reality nobody stands to lose more than $350,000. So actual risk & purse up for grabs is $350,000 x 12 which is $4.2 mil + the 4mil from GP so it's really a $8.2 million race for available purses, hence the nearly 50% not being in play.
An $8 million race is nothing to sneeze at, but saying it's $16 million is a farce.
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12-20-2017, 02:50 AM
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#44
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 4,553
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What is the winning share of the purse however...and for the rest of the placings...?
Does anybody have the actual conditions for the race, etc, I looked but couldn't find anything on the net for the 2018 running.
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12-20-2017, 09:00 AM
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#45
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SG4
Sorry to step in CJ but this is painful to watch so I will try to help & explain to Fager Fan in quick fashion & if he still doesn't get it I will remove myself from this as well:
It costs $1 million to get a slot, 12 slots = $12 million. GP is putting up $4 mil of its own money, making a $16 million purse. Here's the trick though, every single finisher is guaranteed to earn $650,000 so in reality nobody stands to lose more than $350,000. So actual risk & purse up for grabs is $350,000 x 12 which is $4.2 mil + the 4mil from GP so it's really a $8.2 million race for available purses, hence the nearly 50% not being in play.
An $8 million race is nothing to sneeze at, but saying it's $16 million is a farce.
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It's not a farce. That is the purse. Just because the splits are unusual doesn't make it not valid.
The slot owners have input and the guaranteed amounts are what they want, and they're willing to take that in lieu of the normal splits. They still have to run around the track to earn it.
Who complained last year of the guaranteed amounts supposedly not meaning the purse amount was the purse amount?
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