Why isn't the Keeneland Beaumont a KY Oaks points race?

[metro]

They have two 7F races that are, the Santa Ynez (SA) and the Forward Gal (GP).

They have three one turn mile races that are as well, the Pocahantas (CD), Busher (AQ) and Davona Dale (GP).

The GrII Beaumont is run at the Beard Course distance of 7F 184 feet, the furthest Keeneland can run a one turn race. Why wouldn't it be a points race?

Could be a last chance type race for horses that got a late start on their 3 yr. old season and have points toward the Oaks, but aren't ready for a two turn Grade I at this point in their schedule.

[the little guy]

This really needs to be addressed!

[$w1fT]

Originally Posted by metro

They have two 7F races that are, the Santa Ynez (SA) and the Forward Gal (GP).

They have three one turn mile races that are as well, the Pocahantas (CD), Busher (AQ) and Davona Dale (GP).

The GrII Beaumont is run at the Beard Course distance of 7F 184 feet, the furthest Keeneland can run a one turn race. Why wouldn't it be a points race?

Could be a last chance type race for horses that got a late start on their 3 yr. old season and have points toward the Oaks, but aren't ready for a two turn Grade I at this point in their schedule.

Huh?

[Spalding No!]

Originally Posted by metro

They have two 7F races that are, the Santa Ynez (SA) and the Forward Gal (GP).

They have three one turn mile races that are as well, the Pocahantas (CD), Busher (AQ) and Davona Dale (GP).

The GrII Beaumont is run at the Beard Course distance of 7F 184 feet, the furthest Keeneland can run a one turn race. Why wouldn't it be a points race?

Could be a last chance type race for horses that got a late start on their 3 yr. old season and have points toward the Oaks, but aren't ready for a two turn Grade I at this point in their schedule.

CDI wants that race to produce horses for the Eight Belles on the Oaks undercard, not for the Oaks itself.

Historically, it was used as an Oaks prep but also was run early in the Keeneland before the Ashland at the tail end (Go For Wand won both before winning the Oaks).

Another reason why the points system is a failure. Let CDI directly dictate your horse's campaign why don't you.

On a big picture scale, it's also an example of the negative trend to stratify young horses early on in their careers as sprinters or routers. Fooled Brad Cox into never stretching out Matareya around 2-turns after her 2nd start, even though she was bred to go 10 furlongs.

[metro]

Originally Posted by Spalding No!

CDI wants that race to produce horses for the Eight Belles on the Oaks undercard, not for the Oaks itself.

Historically, it was used as an Oaks prep but also was run early in the Keeneland before the Ashland at the tail end (Go For Wand won both before winning the Oaks).

Another reason why the points system is a failure. Let CDI directly dictate your horse's campaign why don't you.

On a big picture scale, it's also an example of the negative trend to stratify young horses early on in their careers as sprinters or routers. Fooled Brad Cox into never stretching out Matareya around 2-turns after her 2nd start, even though she was bred to go 10 furlongs.

In theory CD wants fillies from the Beaumont in the Eight Belles. In reality they've gotten 3 horses out of the last 4 runnings. Not that they have a lot to choose from, including this year the race has averaged just 6 runners over the last 5 times they've ran it.

I realize there is a time constraint/schedule issue but it just seems like the race would be more attractive if Ky Oaks points were involved. Maybe move it back to the weekend of the Stonestreet and give it the same 20/10/6 type point structure. Not that it would have helped Denims and Pearls, but anybody think her connections wouldn't like to have the Oaks as an option now?

[the little guy]

If they thought she was an Oaks horse, they could have and would have run her in the Ashland. It seems pretty obvious they were using this to see if she was an Eight Belles/Test type of filly.

[metro]

Cox already had Impel in the Ashland for Juddmonte and they needed points for her. It's really not about Denims and Pearls anyway, it's about making the race more relevant than a watered down Grade II.

[cj]

It was until this year. They announced the change last year:

https://www.thoroughbreddailynews.co...nd-oaks-roads/

[Spalding No!]

Originally Posted by cj

It was until this year. They announced the change last year:

https://www.thoroughbreddailynews.co...nd-oaks-roads/

Well that plugs up this rabbit hole.

Since the advent of the points system (2013) the Beaumont has produced exactly one runner (Kelly's Humor, a 50-1 shot in the Oaks).

If they retool the Beaumont, they should put the race back to 7-10 days before the Ashland. Then maybe someday one of these genius supertrainers will get the bright idea of running their Ashland filly 7 furlongs for $400k as a lead-in instead of working the horse 5 or 6 furlongs & posting a video of it on Twitter.

[metro]

Originally Posted by cj

It was until this year. They announced the change last year:

https://www.thoroughbreddailynews.co...nd-oaks-roads/

Thanks for looking it up. Don't think any of us realized it had been a points race, I certainly didn't. Digging deeper Churchill referred to it as a "wild card" when categorizing their Oaks preps and was on a 10/6/4 type of point structure. IDK if they ever made it worth more.

Going forward I'll just keep looking for it the Sunday after the Bluegrass, unless it's an Easter Sunday and then who knows where Keeneland will drop it in.

[classhandicapper]

Why do they need a points system for the Oaks?

It's not like they are getting consistent overflow demand like the Derby. If they should start getting demand getting closer to 20, then maybe it would matter. But they could just as easily run more than the typical number of horses in the Oaks like the Derby even if some people don't find a 20 horse field appealing.

I don't think there is a perfect points system.

If they made it strictly objective, there's going to be an occasional horse that doesn't qualify by the rules that everyone wants to see run.

If they add a subjective element, politics will start creeping into the points system and any subjective analysis for those last few slots.

[the little guy]

Originally Posted by metro

Cox already had Impel in the Ashland for Juddmonte and they needed points for her. It's really not about Denims and Pearls anyway, it's about making the race more relevant than a watered down Grade II.

Why is any race relevant?

Races are all means to ends, whatever exactly they may be. It fits as a stepping stone to the Eight Belles, which ultimately can lead to the Test, with a race or two in between, and then hopefully the BC F&M Sprint. The Beaumont is relevant because it's a Stake at Keeneland. It's relevant this year because it showed that Denim and Pearls can be a force going forward in the F&M Sprint division with efforts like that.

It's not all about the KY Oaks. Sadly, the game now lacks sprinters at a high level. It's April. It's a long year. Hopefully this race can be relevant to the division going forward. I wish the males could find some good sprinters, as right now, that division is in shambles.