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Poll: Saratoga vs Del Mar
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Saratoga vs Del Mar

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Old 09-10-2023, 07:07 PM   #76
dilanesp
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No it wasn't. CA handle includes double counting of simulcast outlets and handle from other tracks on track.
I am not saying you should totally trust California figures, but as worded this is incorrect. California apportions both numbers (and may not do it accurately) but tracks aren't supposed to double count.
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Old 09-10-2023, 08:08 PM   #77
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I am not saying you should totally trust California figures, but as worded this is incorrect. California apportions both numbers (and may not do it accurately) but tracks aren't supposed to double count.
They do double count. I don't care what they're "supposed to do." The released daily figures have been inaccurate for a long time.
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Old 09-11-2023, 05:30 PM   #78
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https://www.drf.com/news/del-mar-sum...andle-declines
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Old 09-11-2023, 06:18 PM   #79
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Think there are still handle reports for Del Mar at calracing.com

We all know the handle trend is down and so it revenue. We all know CAW handle is growing while retail handle is in decline. All of this is self inflicted by an Industry that's only strategy is to fail as slowly as possible.

First any track should report handle on their own product and then also report all sources. I used to give a sh*t about this stuff but there is no point.

I thought Del Mar put together a pretty good meet but I guess I was wrong. I live 20 minutes away and only went once even though I basically get in for free and park for free and sit for free.

Good luck to anyone who thinks things will get better
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Old 09-11-2023, 06:50 PM   #80
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Think there are still handle reports for Del Mar at calracing.com

We all know the handle trend is down and so it revenue. We all know CAW handle is growing while retail handle is in decline. All of this is self inflicted by an Industry that's only strategy is to fail as slowly as possible.

First any track should report handle on their own product and then also report all sources. I used to give a sh*t about this stuff but there is no point.

I thought Del Mar put together a pretty good meet but I guess I was wrong. I live 20 minutes away and only went once even though I basically get in for free and park for free and sit for free.

Good luck to anyone who thinks things will get better
I miss betting on Del Mar already even if itís pretty much over for the rest of the year in California. The 8.92 horses per race was a slight disappointment compared to last year but was still pretty good. It might have equaled last yearís 9.14 if they didnít have so many horses scratch in the post parade and at the gate.
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Old 09-12-2023, 11:44 PM   #81
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Think there are still handle reports for Del Mar at calracing.com

We all know the handle trend is down and so it revenue. We all know CAW handle is growing while retail handle is in decline. All of this is self inflicted by an Industry that's only strategy is to fail as slowly as possible.

First any track should report handle on their own product and then also report all sources. I used to give a sh*t about this stuff but there is no point.

I thought Del Mar put together a pretty good meet but I guess I was wrong. I live 20 minutes away and only went once even though I basically get in for free and park for free and sit for free.

Good luck to anyone who thinks things will get better
I dont always get there but have been to 15-20 of say the last 25 meets.

I definitely think the on track experience has deteriorated a lot since I started going.

Its an old place but it never felt old, if that makes sense, but now things are really being let go. There just is a general lack of upkeep as you go around the track.

I actually think the betting product is still really good and provides ample opportunity.

One thing that seems really out of proportion to me, they charge ridiculous amounts for food and drink, concert level prices. 16oz coors draft, $15 plus tip...pre packaged cheap ass food, 20-30 bucks. I took a group of 5 others and I bet with a table, food, and drink we easily spent 600-700, thats before betting. A little extreme if you wanted people to come back.
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Old 09-13-2023, 06:53 PM   #82
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it's weird nobody has anything to say about this...or is pondering the impending doom at DMR based on these numbers...seems everybody just wants to talk about NYRA...
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Old 09-13-2023, 07:32 PM   #83
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I dont always get there but have been to 15-20 of say the last 25 meets.

I definitely think the on track experience has deteriorated a lot since I started going.

Its an old place but it never felt old, if that makes sense, but now things are really being let go. There just is a general lack of upkeep as you go around the track.

I actually think the betting product is still really good and provides ample opportunity.

One thing that seems really out of proportion to me, they charge ridiculous amounts for food and drink, concert level prices. 16oz coors draft, $15 plus tip...pre packaged cheap ass food, 20-30 bucks. I took a group of 5 others and I bet with a table, food, and drink we easily spent 600-700, thats before betting. A little extreme if you wanted people to come back.
This is interesting for an East Coaster to read.

I think a lot of it is being "the thing to do". Del Mar was once a popular thing to do. All of the negativity about racing in California, real and exaggerated, plus (based on your report) sky-high prices, maybe they're combining to lower interest and handle? I thought the meet was better than usual, some pretty damn good racing, but I guess live there it's becoming less a priority.

As I've said in other threads about costs, if people WANT to be somewhere, they will pay what it takes to be there. If they don't, or they don't feel they're being treated well, you can give it away for free and they won't show.
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Old 09-14-2023, 04:35 PM   #84
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it's weird nobody has anything to say about this...or is pondering the impending doom at DMR based on these numbers...seems everybody just wants to talk about NYRA...
I have said repeatedly that I think the long term outlook for California racing is grim. And despite my many problems with NYRA I have never said that about New York racing.
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Old 09-15-2023, 02:40 AM   #85
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https://vault.si.com/vault/1991/07/1...r-horseplayers

there's a look back at probably better times before the whales, timeform, moss, hth, or whatever. gerry okuneff beats the bounce!!
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Old 09-15-2023, 08:52 PM   #86
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https://vault.si.com/vault/1991/07/1...r-horseplayers

there's a look back at probably better times before the whales, timeform, moss, hth, or whatever. gerry okuneff beats the bounce!!
I still swear by it being the best place in America-- IN THE SUMMER (not the fall)-- to go see a horse race.

But financially and in terms of product and political climate, it and the rest of Southern California racing are in a lot of trouble. Meanwhile Belmont is building itself a new grandstand-- I'd say the future looks bright in NY.
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Old 09-17-2023, 06:12 PM   #87
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I still swear by it being the best place in America-- IN THE SUMMER (not the fall)-- to go see a horse race.

But financially and in terms of product and political climate, it and the rest of Southern California racing are in a lot of trouble. Meanwhile Belmont is building itself a new grandstand-- I'd say the future looks bright in NY.
It will be interesting to see if the theory of consolidation is best for the sport.......I dont think it will be.
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Old 09-21-2023, 10:00 PM   #88
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Old 11-02-2023, 07:06 PM   #89
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it should be saratoga or keeneland

del mar is grossly overrated, and the racing there is grossly overrated and not great. California racing in general is pitiful.
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Old 11-06-2023, 09:53 AM   #90
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It will be interesting to see if the theory of consolidation is best for the sport.......I dont think it will be.
A better bet is that people will misunderstand what's going on no matter what happens.

Consolidation will reduce the cost per dollar of revenue for the overall sport, but if the overall revenue pie is shrinking just as fast as costs are being removed, it's not going to do much for the bottom line of the remaining tracks. It just turns a hemorrhage into a slow bleed.

For it to work, you have to take costs out way faster than the revenue decline. That would leave some free cash available for the best positioned survivors to have a fighting chance of making investments that stabilize or grow revenue and get everyone into a healthier state.

Watching this industry is a lot like watching my second favorite pastime - which is shooting pool. Pool is one of the all time great games because it has both a physical and intellectual component, is full of colorful entertaining characters, and there's plenty of gambling action. It's also full of people that couldn't run a lemonade stand successfully, which is why it's dead in the US but doing well in Europe and Asia, much like racing.
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