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01-07-2018, 07:06 PM
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#76
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Boston+Ocala
Posts: 23,752
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage
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the deal they are giving away on Betfair is a good one, it is binary. you can bet even money that it will be over $5000 by the end of the year. right now its over $15000!
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01-07-2018, 07:37 PM
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#77
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage
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And the chart since it has been trading is oh so ordinary. Just like any other future.
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01-08-2018, 09:52 AM
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#78
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 4,520
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage
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Easy money indeed as BC drops 13% in 24 hours.
Allan
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01-08-2018, 10:49 AM
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#79
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage
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Why should anyone bet their retirements on anything? To prove themselves a fool?
I'm not quite sure what your angle is. To mock those who think this is a con or ponzi scheme?
It's going to fail. Some will get rich off the con, and for everyone who got rich off it, there will be the losers whose money they took. There's nothing like investing in nothing!
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01-08-2018, 01:34 PM
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#80
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 4,520
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Per IRS regulations, Bitcoin (and other cyptocurrencies) is a piece of property subject to capital gains tax.
Allan
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01-12-2018, 04:30 PM
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#81
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PA Steward
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Del Boca Vista
Posts: 88,589
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fager Fan
Why should anyone bet their retirements on anything? To prove themselves a fool?
I'm not quite sure what your angle is. To mock those who think this is a con or ponzi scheme?
It's going to fail. Some will get rich off the con, and for everyone who got rich off it, there will be the losers whose money they took. There's nothing like investing in nothing!
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You do know what it means to SHORT something, correct? You make money if it GOES DOWN.
Bitcoin futures are trading on legitimate, regulated FUTURES EXCHANGES here in the USA. Same place I trade S&P futures.
Very safe.
If you are so convinced Bitcoin is a con or a ponzi scheme, you should be putting everything you can into shorting Bitcoin futures. You'd be an idiot not to.
If I was that sure about something, you'd better believe I'd be getting down as much as I could on it...
So, bottom line...you don't seem to be as convinced as you were if you haven't already opened a futures account by now...
I hope I've cleared up what I was trying to tell you earlier. I wasn't agreeing or disagreeing with you...just wondering why, if you're so sure about this, you aren't trading against it...it's like walking away from an ATM spitting out free money.
Last edited by PaceAdvantage; 01-12-2018 at 04:31 PM.
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01-12-2018, 04:46 PM
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#82
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Washoe County, Nevada
Posts: 2,253
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage
You do know what it means to SHORT something, correct? You make money if it GOES DOWN.
Bitcoin futures are trading on legitimate, regulated FUTURES EXCHANGES here in the USA. Same place I trade S&P futures.
Very safe.
If you are so convinced Bitcoin is a con or a ponzi scheme, you should be putting everything you can into shorting Bitcoin futures. You'd be an idiot not to.
If I was that sure about something, you'd better believe I'd be getting down as much as I could on it...
So, bottom line...you don't seem to be as convinced as you were if you haven't already opened a futures account by now...
I hope I've cleared up what I was trying to tell you earlier. I wasn't agreeing or disagreeing with you...just wondering why, if you're so sure about this, you aren't trading against it...it's like walking away from an ATM spitting out free money.
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Warren Buffett wants to sell a call or buy a put expiring in 5 years. I think Fager is on the same wavelength.
I don’t know why everyone thinks they need to have an opinion. Currencies and commodities aren’t my thing so I don’t own gold, swisss francs, or bitcoin. But if someone is young enough to take a flyer with some small portion of their portfolio, I wish them success.
Last edited by _______; 01-12-2018 at 04:47 PM.
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01-12-2018, 04:55 PM
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#83
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PA Steward
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Del Boca Vista
Posts: 88,589
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _______
Warren Buffett wants to sell a call or buy a put expiring in 5 years. I think Fager is on the same wavelength.
I don’t know why everyone thinks they need to have an opinion. Currencies and commodities aren’t my thing so I don’t own gold, swisss francs, or bitcoin. But if someone is young enough to take a flyer with some small portion of their portfolio, I wish them success.
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Fager is as anti-bitcoin as anyone I've seen on here. If I were him, I'd be chomping at the bit to short this thing. On one of the most legitimate and regulated futures markets in the world. (CME / CBOE)
I've pointed him towards those means. What he does is up to him.
As they say, put your money where your mouth is.
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01-12-2018, 05:21 PM
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#84
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Pace Cappa
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,649
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage
You do know what it means to SHORT something, correct? You make money if it GOES DOWN.
Bitcoin futures are trading on legitimate, regulated FUTURES EXCHANGES here in the USA. Same place I trade S&P futures.
Very safe.
If you are so convinced Bitcoin is a con or a ponzi scheme, you should be putting everything you can into shorting Bitcoin futures. You'd be an idiot not to.
If I was that sure about something, you'd better believe I'd be getting down as much as I could on it...
So, bottom line...you don't seem to be as convinced as you were if you haven't already opened a futures account by now...
I hope I've cleared up what I was trying to tell you earlier. I wasn't agreeing or disagreeing with you...just wondering why, if you're so sure about this, you aren't trading against it...it's like walking away from an ATM spitting out free money.
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__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2hFZ8KnsSo
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01-12-2018, 05:53 PM
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#85
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: JCapper Platinum: Kind of like Deep Blue... but for horses.
Posts: 5,289
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Here's What Warren Buffett Just Said About Bitcoin:
https://www.fool.com/investing/2018/...t-bitcoin.aspx
Quote:
But he's not about to short bitcoin, either
Although Buffett has a negative outlook for cryptocurrencies, you won't see him shorting them anytime soon.
"If I could buy a five-year put on every one of the cryptocurrencies, I'd be glad to do it but I would never short a dime's worth."
The recent introduction of bitcoin futures allows traders to bet against the leading digital currency for the first time, and while it may seem like a no-brainer for a bitcoin bear like Buffett, it's far too dangerous.
Simple put, the reward potential doesn't justify the risk, especially for an asset that is as volatile as bitcoin. For example, let's say that you shorted one bitcoin while it traded for $14,000. If bitcoin fell to zero, the most you can make is $14,000 on your trade. On the other hand, the loss potential is unlimited. I've said that under the right circumstances, bitcoin could get much higher. If bitcoin were to reach $100,000, for example, your short position would result in a loss of $86,000.
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I've added red font to the above quote for emphasis.
A five-year put is a very different thing than a short.
A five-year put?... Maybe. (Provided I could find one at a decent price.)
But a short?... No way in hell.
If you were to short Bitcoin in any significant way -- and if the trade went against you:
In all likelihood you would end up losing your entire life savings.
That's not a bet I'd urge anyone to make... not even my worst enemy.
-jp
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__________________
Team JCapper: 2011 PAIHL Regular Season ROI Leader after 15 weeks
www.JCapper.com
Last edited by Jeff P; 01-12-2018 at 06:02 PM.
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01-12-2018, 05:58 PM
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#86
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PA Steward
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Del Boca Vista
Posts: 88,589
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Ummm...they do offer a little something called a STOP that will limit your losses on any trade, including futures.
That way, YOU can set your loss limit...what's written above is kind of silly if you actually know something about trading (not saying you don't...just talking in general).
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01-12-2018, 06:00 PM
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#87
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Boston+Ocala
Posts: 23,752
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there are 3 different phases in equities.
1. accumulation
2. mark up
3. distribution
anytime you short before mark up and distribution, you will be fighting an uphill battle.
knowing which phase the equity is in is the basic key to this.
i went broke shorting Pulte homes at the wrong time. if i had known then what i do now i would have scored big on my short.
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01-12-2018, 06:31 PM
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#88
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: JCapper Platinum: Kind of like Deep Blue... but for horses.
Posts: 5,289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage
Ummm...they do offer a little something called a STOP that will limit your losses on any trade, including futures.
That way, YOU can set your loss limit...what's written above is kind of silly if you actually know something about trading (not saying you don't...just talking in general).
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I posted what I did because I just about never use a stop or even think about them for the positions I take.
99% of the time that I take a position I'm long (as in years.)
I take positions when I think I see solid fundamentals, and do my best to ignore all the head fakes, ups and downs, noise, sentiment, etc., and hold for the long term.
99% of the time, the only thing that gets me out of a position - is when I think the fundamentals have changed.
If that makes me something other than a trader: so be it.
That said, I stand by what I posted.
You won't catch me shorting Bitcoin. (Nor will you catch me suggesting to anyone who posts here that they should short Bitcoin either.)
-jp
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__________________
Team JCapper: 2011 PAIHL Regular Season ROI Leader after 15 weeks
www.JCapper.com
Last edited by Jeff P; 01-12-2018 at 06:46 PM.
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01-12-2018, 06:37 PM
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#89
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage
Ummm...they do offer a little something called a STOP that will limit your losses on any trade, including futures.
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Not if it goes Limit Up/Limit Down. The scariest position ever to be in, in trading futures.
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01-12-2018, 06:49 PM
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#90
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PA Steward
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Del Boca Vista
Posts: 88,589
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tape Reader
Not if it goes Limit Up/Limit Down. The scariest position ever to be in, in trading futures.
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Well, if you (using the general YOU here, not YOU personally) think Bitcoins are a sham and a ponzi scheme, but you're scared of them going limit up, then I would suggest you really don't think they are such a scam after all.
And let's be realistic here...unless some major country abandons their current currency and declares Bitcoin their currency going forward (chances of that happening are, dare I say, nil), you really don't have that much to worry about in terms of losing your life savings in a lock limit situation.
For the record, I am not going to trade Bitcoin futures...long or short...I'm just asking those who are so bearish on them and call them a scam and a ponzi scheme, why aren't you itching to short at least 1 contract... 
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