Jerry Hollendorfer Banned from Santa Anita

[groupie doll]

Originally Posted by clicknow

Racing can't regulate themselves and have proved it over and over again.

Couldn't upvote this since the system wouldn't let me, but this succinctly sums up... pretty much everything.

[Jeff P]

Los Angeles Times --
By John Cherwa Special Contributor | Dec. 14, 2019 3:01 PM
Two horses die in same race at Los Alamitos:
https://www.latimes.com/sports/story...t-los-alamitos

Los Alamitos had its first two deaths during daytime thoroughbred racing this year when two horses died in the first race on Saturday. The deaths were not related.

Mighty Elijah injured his left front leg in the stretch, according to the stewards. He was vanned off and euthanized when his injury could not be repaired. The horse was trained by Jerry Hollendorfer, who is banned from running his horses Santa Anita Park and Golden Gates Fields after a string of fatalities. Los Alamitos has allowed him to race horses and Del Mar let him race after Hollendorfer obtained a court order.

Mighty Elijah, a 4-year-old gelding, was winless in nine starts and running in a $15,000 maiden claiming race when he broke down.

The other horse to die was Into a Hot Spot, who collapsed while being unsaddled after the race. He died on the track. The stewards said he had internal injuries.

Mighty Elijah was the eighth horse to die in Hollendorfer’s care in the last 13 months. There have been four at Santa Anita, two at Golden Gate, one at Del Mar and now one at Los Alamitos. Hollendorfer announced earlier this month that he was taking his stable to Oaklawn Park in Arkansas to run after the beginning of the year.

Not sure if this has already been posted in one of the other threads. (If so feel free to remove this post as a duplicate.)

That said --

My gut reaction after reading this is:

You have got to be f-ing kidding me.




-jp

.

[Jeff P]

Knowing that Oaklawn Park is planning on welcoming this trainer with open arms, I feel compelled to ask the following:

How is it that a trainer -- ANY trainer -- is allowed to race ANYWHERE -- after having seven... strike that and make it eight --

How is it that a trainer -- ANY trainer -- is allowed to race ANYWHERE -- after having eight horses die while under his care in the span of about a year?

If seven deaths in the span of about a year isn't too many?

If eight deaths in the span of about a year isn't too many?

How many is too many?

Fifteen?

Twenty?

Fifty?

Seriously --

What's it going to take to get a North American racing jurisdiction -- ANY North American racing jurisdiction -- to regulate this sport in a serious way?

Strike that.

What's it going to take to get EVERY North American racing jurisdiction to regulate this sport in a serious way?



-jp

.

[castaway01]

Originally Posted by Jeff P

Knowing that Oaklawn Park is planning on welcoming this trainer with open arms, I feel compelled to ask the following:

How is it that a trainer -- ANY trainer -- is allowed to race ANYWHERE -- after having seven... strike that and make it eight --

How is it that a trainer -- ANY trainer -- is allowed to race ANYWHERE -- after having eight horses die while under his care in the span of about a year?

If seven deaths in the span of about a year isn't too many?

If eight deaths in the span of about a year isn't too many?

How many is too many?

Fifteen?

Twenty?

Fifty?

Seriously --

What's it going to take to get a North American racing jurisdiction -- ANY North American racing jurisdiction -- to regulate this sport in a serious way?

Strike that.

What's it going to take to get EVERY North American racing jurisdiction to regulate this sport in a serious way?



-jp

.

Well, if you read this thread and others, Hollendorfer has a lot of defenders. It's a very strange phenomenon that people here complain endlessly how we need more regulation, yet any time a track actually kicks a trainer out, there are a lot of people saying it is unjust. In this case, even for a guy with eight deaths in a year. That's why nothing gets done.

[clicknow]

Originally Posted by castaway01

Well, if you read this thread and others, Hollendorfer has a lot of defenders. It's a very strange phenomenon that people here complain endlessly how we need more regulation, yet any time a track actually kicks a trainer out, there are a lot of people saying it is unjust. In this case, even for a guy with eight deaths in a year. That's why nothing gets done.

For the record, I never defended Hollendorfer, just that when the CHRB makes a call, knowing their dishonesty in past dealings (IMHO) I'm not ready to tar and feather anybody. The problem is that racing has proved it cannot regulate itself, that is clear. But unless everyone is on the same level playing field in this respect, are we gonna just keep picking and choosing certain trainers to bash in the meantime? Ditto the ones not paying their employees, esp. when ones that have mysterious cluster deathsare found innocent despite giving drugs for non-therapeutic reasons (like the horses are young and not diagnosed with any thyroid problems), etc. etc. etc.

I just feel less inclined to pick off certain trainers like I'm doing beer can target practice these days, knowing how utterly corrupt so many racing jurisdictions are and have been.

UNTIL there is a centralized body with a commissioner, over all of racing, I am just not going to overly bash certain trainers.......because iin the back of my mind there is always the thought "they are doing it too, they just haven't had the bad luck to have their horses crumble under on the track."

Fix it, and fix it right........no piecemeal, half azzed stuff like this is going to convince me that "racing is cleaning up it's act".

Get a set of rules, with consequences, and stick by them. No excuses. For ALL tracks and ALL trainers and ALL racing board officials and their boards, all tracks, all track officials,etc.

Really it's getting laughable seeing all the piecemeal stuff getting approved and STILL NO CENTRALIZED PLAN.......for anybody, anywhere. And everyone walking around, scratching their heads and asking "Is it the trainer? The drugs? The track? Whips? The Weather? What?"

THere is more than enough knowledge and research out there.....and if there isn't it's been decades and decades to do the work. We put a man on the moon in '69, but can't seem to find our way around horse physiology? Please.

When I place my very last wager on U.S. racing, I will sign off as "tired of waiting".

[Fager Fan]

Originally Posted by castaway01

Well, if you read this thread and others, Hollendorfer has a lot of defenders. It's a very strange phenomenon that people here complain endlessly how we need more regulation, yet any time a track actually kicks a trainer out, there are a lot of people saying it is unjust. In this case, even for a guy with eight deaths in a year. That's why nothing gets done.

Bingo.

[Fager Fan]

Originally Posted by clicknow

For the record, I never defended Hollendorfer, just that when the CHRB makes a call, knowing their dishonesty in past dealings (IMHO) I'm not ready to tar and feather anybody. The problem is that racing has proved it cannot regulate itself, that is clear. But unless everyone is on the same level playing field in this respect, are we gonna just keep picking and choosing certain trainers to bash in the meantime? Ditto the ones not paying their employees, esp. when ones that have mysterious cluster deathsare found innocent despite giving drugs for non-therapeutic reasons (like the horses are young and not diagnosed with any thyroid problems), etc. etc. etc.

I just feel less inclined to pick off certain trainers like I'm doing beer can target practice these days, knowing how utterly corrupt so many racing jurisdictions are and have been.

UNTIL there is a centralized body with a commissioner, over all of racing, I am just not going to overly bash certain trainers.......because iin the back of my mind there is always the thought "they are doing it too, they just haven't had the bad luck to have their horses crumble under on the track."

Fix it, and fix it right........no piecemeal, half azzed stuff like this is going to convince me that "racing is cleaning up it's act".

Get a set of rules, with consequences, and stick by them. No excuses. For ALL tracks and ALL trainers and ALL racing board officials and their boards, all tracks, all track officials,etc.

Really it's getting laughable seeing all the piecemeal stuff getting approved and STILL NO CENTRALIZED PLAN.......for anybody, anywhere. And everyone walking around, scratching their heads and asking "Is it the trainer? The drugs? The track? Whips? The Weather? What?"

THere is more than enough knowledge and research out there.....and if there isn't it's been decades and decades to do the work. We put a man on the moon in '69, but can't seem to find our way around horse physiology? Please.

When I place my very last wager on U.S. racing, I will sign off as "tired of waiting".

You veered way off path here.

There is nothing to blame on even the most corrupt CHRB when a trainer has 6 horses dead in a year (which of course is now 8).

There is nothing to blame on a track surface when a trainer has had 8 deaths over 4 tracks (and I think 6 surfaces, turf and dirt at SA, GG, Los Al, Del Mar, and training track at SA).

I’d say that your perhaps justified dislike for the CHRB is misdirected when it leads to anything less than condemnation of any trainer who has 8 dead horses, all of bone breaks, in less than a year.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by castaway01

Well, if you read this thread and others, Hollendorfer has a lot of defenders. It's a very strange phenomenon that people here complain endlessly how we need more regulation, yet any time a track actually kicks a trainer out, there are a lot of people saying it is unjust. In this case, even for a guy with eight deaths in a year. That's why nothing gets done.

One of the age old problems in situations like this is people expect their villains to act like, well, villains.

So it's really, really easy for baseball fans to get extremely mad at Barry Bonds. Keep him out of the Hall of Fame! Don't applaud his home run record! Boo him if he shows up at your ballpark! Because Bonds is a perfect villain- he always had a surly personality, he comes off as egotistical, he had a distant relationship with fans, etc.

But baseball fans are often very forgiving of Mark McGwire, Alex Rodriguez, and other people who were implicated. Because they don't act like villains. They were nice to the fans. They had friendly personalities. They took all the reporters' questions.

So of course major trainers who are under suspicion are going to have defenders. I have never met Hollendorfer, but I've seen him on television a number of times and he seems to have a friendly personality. Doug O'Neill, who I have seen up close and personal a few times, is extremely friendly and in fact did something I always found to be highly courageous and evincing of a great amount of love for his horses- calling for the scratch of I'll Have Another in the Belmont despite having a chance at the Triple Crown.

People don't want to see folks they see as friendly, good people be taken down in scandals.

[The_Turf_Monster]

Originally Posted by castaway01

Well, if you read this thread and others, Hollendorfer has a lot of defenders. It's a very strange phenomenon that people here complain endlessly how we need more regulation, yet any time a track actually kicks a trainer out, there are a lot of people saying it is unjust. In this case, even for a guy with eight deaths in a year. That's why nothing gets done.

The one I get a laugh at every time is how some posters have to put 'Hall of Fame Trainer' before his name

[Jeff P]

According to the LA Times article from my post above, horses under Hollendorfer's care have suffered 8 on track fatalities in California over the past 13 months.

I ran some stats that may (or may not) help put that in perspective.

Below is a cut and paste of stats from my current database for Hollendorfer thoroughbreds at California tracks over the past 13 months - from Nov 01 2018 current through Sunday Dec 15 2019:

query start:         12/17/2019 8:54:18 AM
query end:           12/17/2019 8:54:18 AM
elapsed time:        0 seconds

Data Window Settings:
Connected to: C:\JCapper\exe\JCapper2.mdb
999 Divisor  Odds Cap: None
SQL UDM Plays Report: Hide

SQL:  SELECT * FROM STARTERHISTORY
      WHERE TRAINER='HOLLENDORFER JERRY' 
      AND INSTR('DMR-FNO-GGX-LRC-PLN-SAC-SAX-SRX', TRACK) > 0 
      AND [DATE] >= #11-01-2018# 
      AND [DATE] <= #12-15-2019# 
      ORDER BY [DATE], TRACK, RACE


 Data Summary          Win         Place          Show
-----------------------------------------------------
Mutuel Totals      943.50        920.60        934.90
Bet              -1230.00      -1230.00      -1230.00
-----------------------------------------------------
P/L               -286.50       -309.40       -295.10

Wins                  112           206           296
Plays                 615           615           615
PCT                 .1821         .3350         .4813

ROI                0.7671        0.7485        0.7601
Avg Mut              8.42          4.47          3.16

My database shows that Hollendorfer thoroughbreds made 615 starts at tracks in California over the past 13 months - from Nov 01 2018 current through Sunday Dec 15 2019.

Doing some math --

If the stats in the LA Times article are correct and 8 Hollendorfer thoroughbreds suffered 8 fatalities while running in races at tracks in California over the past 13 months:

Then the fatality rate for Hollendorfer thoroughbreds while racing in California over the past 13 months is 1.3 percent calculated as follows:

0.01300813 = (8/615)

Which works out to 13.00813 fatalities per 1000 runners calculated as follows:

13.00813 = 1000 x (8/615)

A few weeks ago, the Boodhorse reported a US fatality rate of 1.61 horses per 1000 runners after looking at data spanning the past 5 fiscal years in The Jockey Club's Equine Injury Database.

Hollendorfer's fatality rate in California over the past 13 months is more than 8 TIMES that of the national fatality rate for the past 5 fiscal years in The Jockey Club's Equine Injury Database - and can be calculated as follows:

8.07958 = (13.00813/1.61)

I'll be the first to admit Hollendorfer's spike in fatalities could very well be just that - a spike in fatalities and nothing else.

However, 615 runners over 13 months is hardly a tiny sample.

Other tracks (Los Al and Oaklawn) seem perfectly willing to welcome a trainer ruled off the grounds from Santa Anita, Golden Gate, and Del Mar for reasons not disclosed to the public - and whose thoroughbreds have suffered a spike in fatality rate.



In my opinion:

This looks bad (very bad) for thoroughbred racing.

I've been told Del Mar initially decided to uphold the decision by Santa Anita and Golden Gate track management to take Hollendorfer entries at their track... but relented after Hollendorfer went to court and asked for an injunction.

Allow me to put that another way:

Del Mar took the path of least resistance. They decided to allow Hollendorfer to run rather than fight him in court.

Ditto for Los Al.

Ditto for the CHRB through all of this.

And Ditto for Oaklawn Park and the Arkansas Racing Commission apparently.

And so here we are.



-jp

.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by Jeff P

According to the LA Times article from my post above, horses under Hollendorfer's care have suffered 8 on track fatalities in California over the past 13 months.

I ran some stats that may (or may not) help put that in perspective.

Below is a cut and paste of stats from my current database for Hollendorfer thoroughbreds at California tracks over the past 13 months - from Nov 01 2018 current through Sunday Dec 15 2019:

query start:         12/17/2019 8:54:18 AM
query end:           12/17/2019 8:54:18 AM
elapsed time:        0 seconds

Data Window Settings:
Connected to: C:\JCapper\exe\JCapper2.mdb
999 Divisor  Odds Cap: None
SQL UDM Plays Report: Hide

SQL:  SELECT * FROM STARTERHISTORY
      WHERE TRAINER='HOLLENDORFER JERRY' 
      AND INSTR('DMR-FNO-GGX-LRC-PLN-SAC-SAX-SRX', TRACK) > 0 
      AND [DATE] >= #11-01-2018# 
      AND [DATE] <= #12-15-2019# 
      ORDER BY [DATE], TRACK, RACE


 Data Summary          Win         Place          Show
-----------------------------------------------------
Mutuel Totals      943.50        920.60        934.90
Bet              -1230.00      -1230.00      -1230.00
-----------------------------------------------------
P/L               -286.50       -309.40       -295.10

Wins                  112           206           296
Plays                 615           615           615
PCT                 .1821         .3350         .4813

ROI                0.7671        0.7485        0.7601
Avg Mut              8.42          4.47          3.16

My database shows that Hollendorfer thoroughbreds made 615 starts at tracks in California over the past 13 months - from Nov 01 2018 current through Sunday Dec 15 2019.

Doing some math --

If the stats in the LA Times article are correct and 8 Hollendorfer thoroughbreds suffered 8 fatalities while running in races at tracks in California over the past 13 months:

Then the fatality rate for Hollendorfer thoroughbreds while racing in California over the past 13 months is 1.3 percent calculated as follows:

0.01300813 = (8/615)

Which works out to 13.00813 fatalities per 1000 runners calculated as follows:

13.00813 = 1000 x (8/615)

A few weeks ago, the Boodhorse reported a US fatality rate of 1.61 horses per 1000 runners after looking at data spanning the past 5 fiscal years in The Jockey Club's Equine Injury Database.

Hollendorfer's fatality rate in California over the past 13 months is more than 8 TIMES that of the national fatality rate for the past 5 fiscal years in The Jockey Club's Equine Injury Database - and can be calculated as follows:

8.07958 = (13.00813/1.61)

I'll be the first to admit Hollendorfer's spike in fatalities could very well be just that - a spike in fatalities and nothing else.

However, 615 runners over 13 months is hardly a tiny sample.

Other tracks (Los Al and Oaklawn) seem perfectly willing to welcome a trainer ruled off the grounds from Santa Anita, Golden Gate, and Del Mar for reasons not disclosed to the public - and whose thoroughbreds have suffered a spike in fatality rate.



In my opinion:

This looks bad (very bad) for thoroughbred racing.

I've been told Del Mar initially decided to uphold the decision by Santa Anita and Golden Gate track management to take Hollendorfer entries at their track... but relented after Hollendorfer went to court and asked for an injunction.

Allow me to put that another way:

Del Mar took the path of least resistance. They decided to allow Hollendorfer to run rather than fight him in court.

Ditto for Los Al.

Ditto for the CHRB through all of this.

And Ditto for Oaklawn Park and the Arkansas Racing Commission apparently.

And so here we are.



-jp

.

Del Mar would have won the court case had they put forth this sort of evidence.

Strangely, Del Mar's position was that they could bar Hollendorfer based solely on his bad reputation, without any evidence of anything. Which is the standard for ruling bookmakers of the track, but it isn't the standard for trainers. The judge was very clear that had Del Mar presented ANY evidence of wrongdoing, he would have upheld the ban. You will note that Hollendorfer's lawyers haven't challenged Stronach- because they know Stronach will come to court with evidence and beat them.

[delsully]

Can you show us his stats for the previous 10 years? I’d be interested to see how they compare to his last year? Seems only fair to see if this year was an outlier.

[clicknow]

Originally Posted by delsully

Can you show us his stats for the previous 10 years? I’d be interested to see how they compare to his last year? Seems only fair to see if this year was an outlier.

I agree that 1 year is way too small a sample size.

Not protecting him (because the Songbird situation really didn't set me down in his favor) but I'm all for correctly conducted analyses.

.

I can look at stats on trainers at OP before and after they instituted super tests/enhanced testing (post race) as well as out of competition testing (randomly) for TC02 (for all races,not just stakes races) in 2016 and 2017.....however, looking only at those years, (for which only wins were recorded, not 2nd places) and looking only at certain trainers, was actually very misleading....)

[cj]

Originally Posted by delsully

Can you show us his stats for the previous 10 years? I’d be interested to see how they compare to his last year? Seems only fair to see if this year was an outlier.

Even if it is, this isn't something where stats are going to matter much. We can't afford outliers 8x the national average.

[Rex Phinney]

I never considered Hollendorfer a harmful trainer, heck he was probably one of my favorite trainers during Shared Belief's run.


That being said, racing is at a sensitive time right now. Probably the actions of the tracks and horsemen will affect the viability of the sport going forward. Taking that mind, and Hollendorfer's recent breakdown record, I'm fine with him being banned. I'd be fine if all tracks shut him out. Right now he is a bad look for the sport, and though some might say it isn't fair, oh well, those are the breaks. Bye Jerry.