Taking horses off lasix in certain races IS ANIMAL CRUELTY

[cj]

Originally Posted by Andy Asaro

I know what's happening in this country, especially in Ca.

I'm fine with Lasix going away, but taking it away from horses that have been using it is bad for everyone. Just grandfather it out. It isn't like stakes horses stick around all that long, would be 99% lasix free in five years.

[Racetrack Playa]

Wouldn't animal cruelty be running a horse without SALIX ,knowing the horse would bleed.
that trainer Orseno, his rant was very telling,. imho




no lasix no problem, figure it out...

[JustRalph]

Originally Posted by cj

I'm fine with Lasix going away, but taking it away from horses that have been using it is bad for everyone. Just grandfather it out. It isn't like stakes horses stick around all that long, would be 99% lasix free in five years.

Only way to do it fairly, but would that give Lasix using horses much advantage?

[Jeff P]

Imo, yes they get an advantage.

After being treated with Lasix they shed an avg of 35-40 lbs of water weight in the hrs leading up to post time.

The 'weight off' makes them faster than horses of the same ability not treated with Lasix.

That's basically why 95% of all horses are currently treated with Lasix whether they are bleeders or not.

I agree with CJ.

Grandfather it out.

Imo --

Tie it to future dates on the calendar and age of horse in years.

For example:

As of Jan 01, 2022: Two year olds will no longer be able to race on Lasix.

As of Jan 01, 2023: Two and three year olds will no longer be able to race on Lasix.

As of Jan 01, 2024: Two, three, and four year olds will no longer be able to race on Lasix.

As of Jan 01, 2025: Lasix is no longer allowed.


-jp

.

[cj]

Originally Posted by JustRalph

Only way to do it fairly, but would that give Lasix using horses much advantage?

Not ideal, but as those horses are going to be getting older and older over time I don't see it as much of an issue. You could also add weight to the horses still using.

[Andy Asaro]

This is a highly negative issue and there isn't an overwhelming majority advocating for getting rid of it but they're gonna go forward anyway.

[cj]

Originally Posted by Andy Asaro

This is a highly negative issue and there isn't an overwhelming majority advocating for getting rid of it but they're gonna go forward anyway.

We've seen what happened to dog racing. It is going to be very hard to justify 95% of the horses getting a drug to race that is banned by most of the competitive sports world. That is why I'm fine with it going away. As a bettor, there are probably about 20 other things that should be addressed first, but this is the world we live in now.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by cj

We've seen what happened to dog racing. It is going to be very hard to justify 95% of the horses getting a drug to race that is banned by most of the competitive sports world. That is why I'm fine with it going away.

This.

[Andy Asaro]

If the Industry was scoping horses after these races and collecting data and reported the level of bleeding in the PP's I would say what the Industry is doing is legit. The ONLY reason they're not doing that is because they don't want people to know the truth to achieve a political end

[classhandicapper]

How do they handle it in Europe, Hong King etc.. ?

We should probably try to learn something from people that are actually operating well without Lasix now.

[Nitro]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

How do they handle it in Europe, Hong King etc.. ?

We should probably try to learn something from people that are actually operating well without Lasix now.

Excellent point!

In Hong Kong, they race solely for the purpose of racing and prohibit all medications on horses on their race day.
They apparently recognize the positive and negative effects of these medications, and obviously want to create a level playing field by operating a clean transparent game for their patrons.

In Europe, their industry covers both racing and breeding. They also have many strict restrictions on all medications. They apparently also understand the impact that medication has on not only the race horse but on the future of the breeding stock.

In the States we saw racing without the medications for decades prior to making them legal. Horses were not only running faster, they ran much more frequently which helped to create larger fields on a consistent basis.
There are many reasons why we don’t follow the lead of these foreign racing jurisdictions, but the obvious one involves the lack of a centralized governing body to regulate the entire racing industry.

[The_Turf_Monster]

I don’t think we’d be having this conversation if people saw the few hours following a lasix injection

[classhandicapper]

Has anyone ever seen any reliable data on whether bleeding is an inheritable trait?

Intuitively I would think yes, but I certainly don't know. To be honest, I don't trust much of anything on the subject because too many people have a vested interest one way or the other. I would love to see a peer reviewed study from a neutral source on that.

[davew]

Originally Posted by The_Turf_Monster

This problem will work its way out in the breeding shed and the game will be better for it

How many generations will that take? Will racing be around then?

[Redboard]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

Has anyone ever seen any reliable data on whether bleeding is an inheritable trait?

Intuitively I would think yes, but I certainly don't know. To be honest, I don't trust much of anything on the subject because too many people have a vested interest one way or the other. I would love to see a peer reviewed study from a neutral source on that.

I read about a study that set out to answer the question of whether equine bleeding is normal. After scoping many wild horses, the answer was no.

It would make sense that non-bleeding was inherited, since every single trait of every living creature was inherited, if you believe in evolution.